Hidden Brain

Healing 2.0: Disrupting Death

Mon Nov 20 2023

memory preservationAI avatargrieftechnologyethical questions

Description

This episode explores the concept of preserving memories through technology. It follows Justin Harrison's journey to create an AI avatar of his deceased mother and the ethical questions it raises. The episode delves into the challenges of capturing a person's essence and the consequences of dedicating oneself to this pursuit.

Insights

Preserving Memories

People have always tried to preserve memories of loved ones, but they fade over time.

Facing Mortality

Justin's accident made him confront his own mortality and legacy without his mom.

Creating an AI Avatar

Justin's plan to keep his mom alive led him to explore cryogenics and create an AI avatar.

The Vorsona Technology

Justin's company, Youve, helps others preserve memories using avatars called Vorsonas.

Consequences and Ethical Questions

Justin's dedication to preserving his mom's memory has personal consequences and raises ethical questions.

Exploring Grief and Technology

The episode discusses the possibility of forming a different relationship with deceased loved ones through technology.

Summary

Transcript

Preserving Memories

00:03 - 08:12

Sheri Turner discovered a picture of her mom's house on Google Maps, which showed a light on in the bedroom window. Her mom had passed away years earlier, but the image made it feel like her mom was still alive.
People have always tried to preserve the memories of loved ones through memorials, anniversaries, and sharing remembrances. However, memories fade over time.
Justin Harrison has fond childhood memories of taking a yearly trip with his mom from San Francisco to Los Angeles. They would listen to music or books on tape and stop at Denny's for breakfast before arriving at Disneyland.
Melody, Justin's mom, worked hard to make his childhood special because she had a tough upbringing herself. She read to him, styled his hair in the latest fashion, and bought him trendy clothes and music.
Melody was a single mom for most of Justin's childhood and money was tight. They were bonded in a unique way as they grew up together.
When Justin was 11, his grandmother had a fatal stroke. Melody blamed herself and struggled with alcohol and bipolar disorder. She spent time in psychiatric hospitals while Justin looked out for her.
When Justin was 13, Melody started dating Daniel, who moved into their apartment after their first date.

Facing Mortality

07:52 - 16:15

Justin's mom started dating a man named Daniel when he was 13, and they eventually got married, bringing stability to their lives.
Justin had a deep bond with his mom and referred to Daniel as his dad.
As an adult, Justin pursued a career in entertainment and achieved success.
One day, while riding his motorcycle, Justin was hit by a car and suffered severe injuries.
He experienced intense pain and the realization of his mortality during the accident.
Justin's parents flew down to LA to be with him during his recovery at the UCLA Trauma Center.
His mom stayed with him throughout the healing process, reading to him at night.
Melody, Justin's mom, had stomach pain for years and was diagnosed with gallbladder cancer after Justin's accident.
The prognosis for Melody's cancer was three to nine months.
Facing his mom's illness made Justin confront his own mortality and legacy without her.
Devastated by the news, Justin came up with a plan to take care of his mom despite still being in a wheelchair.

Creating an AI Avatar

15:55 - 23:38

Justin's first instinct when his mom faced health issues was to come up with a plan to keep her alive.
He became knowledgeable about cancer treatment and options, and sought consultations from top cancer institutes.
Justin also considered cryogenics as a way to potentially revive his mom in the future.
The cost of cryogenics was high, and its effectiveness uncertain.
Inspired by a scene in the movie "I Robot," Justin wanted to create a digital representation or avatar of his mom that could talk to him authentically.
He started collecting audio and video footage of his mom and worked with software engineers and tech experts.
Justin discovered natural language processing and large language models, which he decided to use to create an AI avatar of his mom.
Initially, he planned to teach the AI everything his mom knew but later realized that it needed to capture the essence of who he knew as his mom.

The Vorsona Technology

23:17 - 31:05

Justin realized that creating an avatar of his mom was not just about coherent thoughts, but also capturing her essence.
He started a company called Youve to help others preserve memories of their loved ones using avatars called "Vorsonas".
Justin collected personality traits and everyday interactions to teach his mom's Vorsona.
He focused on the tone and patterns of conversations with his mom through voicemails and texts.
After six to eight months of communication, Justin could have back-and-forth conversations with Melody's Vorsona via text.
Justin made progress on an audio version of his mom's persona by the end of 2022.
Melody's health deteriorated, and Justin realized he would lose her definitively when he saw the wobble in her handwriting on his birthday card.
Despite being invited to a tech conference in Singapore, Justin had to decide whether to be with his dying mom or present his mom's persona at the conference.
Melody advised Justin to go to the conference as it wouldn't impact her whether he was there or not. He flew guilt-free but knew that she might pass away while he was away.
Melody passed away on October 17th, 2022, at the age of 61.

Consequences and Ethical Questions

30:36 - 38:47

Justin's relationship with his mom is preserved through the Versona technology, which learns from their interactions and can update itself even after her death.
The Versona sounds like an impoverished version of Melody, but to Justin, it carries all the associations and emotions he had with his mother.
Justin's dedication to preserving his mom's memory has come at a cost, including neglecting his health, drinking too much, falling behind on mortgage payments, and accumulating credit card debt.
His wife asked him to sell the company and prioritize their family over his obsession with the technology, but he chose not to.
Justin acknowledges that he has paid a high price for pursuing this idea of keeping his mom intact while sacrificing real-life relationships.
Despite the personal consequences, Justin remains committed to his mission and believes it is necessary for creating something different in the world.
His company is struggling financially, and no one working on it is getting paid. Around 30 to 40 people are estimated to be using the technology.
Ethical questions arise regarding representations of deceased individuals who cannot give consent and whether it is acceptable for a persona to say things that were never said by the real person.
There are debates about defining relationships, therapeutic benefits of talking with representations of deceased loved ones, risks involved, and whether grief can be hacked or controlled emotionally.

Exploring Grief and Technology

45:47 - 52:46

The speaker questions whether it is possible to hack an emotion as fundamental as grief.
Grieving is seen as a natural process, not something that can be chosen or controlled.
The speaker reflects on their own experience of grieving their mother and the ongoing process of processing her passing.
There is a discussion about the possibility of forming a different relationship with a deceased loved one through digital recreations.
The speaker argues that grief is a negative experience and should be eliminated.
Various historical practices of maintaining connections with the dead are mentioned, such as writing letters and visiting graveyards.
Psychic services, mediums, palm readers, and astrologers are still popular today for those seeking comfort in communicating with the departed.
Justin Harrison, an entrepreneur, believes he will perfect an algorithm to bring back his deceased loved one through technology.
The potential implications and excitement surrounding this technology are discussed.
The podcast credits the production team and mentions Krishna Bharath's contribution to the story.