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    Tetragrammaton with Rick Rubin

    Merlin Sheldrake

    Wed Mar 20 2024
    fungiecosystemsdecompositionmusicimprovisationunderground life

    Description

    This episode explores the fascinating world of fungi, their role in ecosystems, and their interconnectedness with other organisms. From the speaker's upbringing in a science and music-filled household to the mysteries of fungal networks and the power of improvisation in music, each chapter delves into different aspects of fungi and their impact on the natural world. Discover the hidden world beneath our feet and gain a new perspective on life through the lens of these remarkable organisms.

    Insights

    The speaker grew up in a tall, thin townhouse in Hampstead, London, near Hampstead Heath park.

    Their father was a great experimenter and teacher who encouraged them to take an interest in the living world.

    Fungi play a crucial role in transforming matter from one state to another through decomposing organisms like fungi, bacteria, and other microbes.

    Fungi do not photosynthesize like plants; they obtain energy by consuming sugars and fats produced by photosynthetic organisms.

    The speaker discusses the challenges faced by their father, a scientist known for exploring subjective material that traditional scientists may dismiss.

    The speaker highlights the importance of open-mindedness in scientific inquiry and criticizes scientists who refuse to engage with evidence due to preconceived notions.

    Ecosystems are complex with various activities happening at different levels and in different environments.

    Soil is a dark and cluttered environment where sound is used to explore the bustling activity within it.

    Different yeasts in the environment contribute to the complex flavors in sourdough bread.

    Sourdough starters from different locations can produce distinct bread due to varied yeast cultures.

    Commercial breweries may have interesting brews, but the best ones are often kept private

    Different scientific disciplines involve diverse practices, with some focusing on observation and others on experimentation

    Living within a cycle of experiment, observation, and intervention is highlighted in the context of a long-running experiment involving forests and fungi.

    Fungal networks are described as distributed communicative networks that digest their surroundings outside their bodies.

    Participants in a study on creativity and imagination under psychedelic influence found it challenging to objectively assess their subjective experiences.

    The study aimed to explore how creativity and imagination can be approached scientifically, but faced difficulties in unifying diverse experiences.

    Eating mushrooms can lead to different experiences based on the type of mushroom consumed.

    Mushrooms can affect individuals through flavor, medicinal compounds, or psychedelic properties.

    Fungal networks can be compared to apple trees and orchards, with the ability to reconnect and form a larger network.

    Cutting a fungal network into pieces can lead to individual entities or a single connected network depending on how they grow back together.

    Chapters

    1. The Speaker's Upbringing and Fascination with Cycles of Life
    2. The Role and Mysteries of Fungi
    3. Challenges Faced by the Speaker's Father and Excitement in Studying Fungi
    4. Ecosystems, Fermentation, and Ancient Brewing Recipes
    5. Flavors of Sourdough Bread and Historical Significance of Alcoholic Drinks
    6. Observation, Mycorrhizal Fungal Associations, and Forest-Fungi Experiment
    7. Living Within a Cycle and Interconnectedness of Life
    8. Psychedelics, Creativity, and Communication with Nature
    9. Mushrooms, Hallucinogens, and Collaborative Organisms
    10. Flexibility and Adaptability of Fungal Networks and the Power of Music
    11. The Art of Improvisation and the Power of Language and Music
    12. The Speaker's Connection to Music, Language, and Controversial Ideas
    13. Morphic Resonance, Wood Wide Web, and Mapping Fungal Networks
    14. Understanding Underground Life and Changing Perspectives
    Summary
    Transcript

    The Speaker's Upbringing and Fascination with Cycles of Life

    00:02 - 06:48

    • The speaker grew up in a tall, thin townhouse in Hampstead, London, near Hampstead Heath park.
    • Their father was a great experimenter and teacher who encouraged them to take an interest in the living world.
    • The speaker's upbringing in a household where science and music were integral influenced their career choices.
    • There are various cycles of life on the planet, from daily circadian rhythms to longer climate patterns and cosmic cycles like ice ages.
    • The speaker is fascinated by decomposition and recomposition cycles involving fungi-rich organisms.

    The Role and Mysteries of Fungi

    06:23 - 13:16

    • Fungi play a crucial role in transforming matter from one state to another through decomposing organisms like fungi, bacteria, and other microbes.
    • Fungi do not photosynthesize like plants; they obtain energy by consuming sugars and fats produced by photosynthetic organisms.
    • Fungi are more closely related to animals than plants, despite their plant-like appearance.
    • Mushrooms are analogous to fruits of plants and are produced by mycelial networks which can be much larger and enduring.
    • Fungi communicate with themselves, other microbes, bacteria, surrounding fungi, and plants through chemical and biological means for survival.
    • The study of fungi poses many open questions and mysteries that intrigue researchers due to the vast unknowns in the field.

    Challenges Faced by the Speaker's Father and Excitement in Studying Fungi

    12:50 - 20:01

    • The speaker discusses the challenges faced by their father, a scientist known for exploring subjective material that traditional scientists may dismiss.
    • The speaker highlights the importance of open-mindedness in scientific inquiry and criticizes scientists who refuse to engage with evidence due to preconceived notions.
    • The discussion shifts to studying fungi, emphasizing the excitement of exploring unknown aspects despite previous research in the field.
    • Soils are described as complex and busy places where various processes like decomposition, transformation, and nutrient cycling take place through interactions between organisms and environmental factors.

    Ecosystems, Fermentation, and Ancient Brewing Recipes

    19:35 - 26:18

    • Ecosystems are complex with various activities happening at different levels and in different environments.
    • Soil is a dark and cluttered environment where sound is used to explore the bustling activity within it.
    • Fermentation has been a fundamental part of human nutrition for preserving foods throughout history.
    • Fermented foods like cheese, yogurt, sauerkraut, and pickles have been essential for food preservation.
    • Different types of bacteria and yeast are involved in fermentation processes.

    Flavors of Sourdough Bread and Historical Significance of Alcoholic Drinks

    25:51 - 32:24

    • Different yeasts in the environment contribute to the complex flavors in sourdough bread.
    • Sourdough starters from different locations can produce distinct bread due to varied yeast cultures.
    • Experimenting with ancient brewing recipes reveals a wide variety of flavors and effects beyond just alcohol.
    • Alcoholic drinks historically served as carriers for medicinal herbs, showcasing a broader purpose than just alcohol content.
    • Historically, alcoholic beverages were valued for their transformative and divine aspects rather than solely for alcohol content.

    Observation, Mycorrhizal Fungal Associations, and Forest-Fungi Experiment

    31:57 - 39:00

    • Commercial breweries may have interesting brews, but the best ones are often kept private
    • Different scientific disciplines involve diverse practices, with some focusing on observation and others on experimentation
    • Observation is a crucial starting point for many scientists before forming hypotheses
    • An example of studying mycorrhizal fungal associations in Panama revealed unexpected second-order effects of nutrient additions on plant-fungal interactions

    Living Within a Cycle and Interconnectedness of Life

    38:39 - 45:36

    • Living within a cycle of experiment, observation, and intervention is highlighted in the context of a long-running experiment involving forests and fungi.
    • Fungal networks are described as distributed communicative networks that digest their surroundings outside their bodies.
    • Fungi live within their food by burrowing into it, branching out to digest more, and constantly exploring for new sources.
    • The interconnectedness of life on the planet is emphasized through the lens of fungi and their role in ecological worldviews.
    • Fungi lead us to remember intimate reciprocal dependencies in traditional knowledge systems, highlighting the interconnectedness of all living organisms.

    Psychedelics, Creativity, and Communication with Nature

    45:13 - 52:16

    • Participants in a study on creativity and imagination under psychedelic influence found it challenging to objectively assess their subjective experiences.
    • The study aimed to explore how creativity and imagination can be approached scientifically, but faced difficulties in unifying diverse experiences.
    • The experience of psychedelics led the participant to realize the vastness of their mind beyond the usual confines, allowing for fresh perspectives and problem-solving approaches.
    • Engaging with plants and fungi can lead to a sense of communication or connection on a deep level, influencing thoughts and states of mind.
    • Addressing entities in nature directly through practices like prayer can help recognize a greater community beyond humans and grant them the possibility of having experiences.

    Mushrooms, Hallucinogens, and Collaborative Organisms

    52:05 - 59:40

    • Eating mushrooms can lead to different experiences based on the type of mushroom consumed.
    • Mushrooms can affect individuals through flavor, medicinal compounds, or psychedelic properties.
    • Historical evidence suggests ancient cultures venerated and used psychedelic mushrooms.
    • Hallucinogenic mushrooms differ from chemical hallucinogens in their chemical composition and effects.
    • Fungi and algae have a long history of partnership, leading to significant transformations in plant life on land.
    • Organisms collaborate to achieve biological possibilities that they couldn't achieve alone.

    Flexibility and Adaptability of Fungal Networks and the Power of Music

    59:15 - 1:06:29

    • Fungal networks can be compared to apple trees and orchards, with the ability to reconnect and form a larger network.
    • Cutting a fungal network into pieces can lead to individual entities or a single connected network depending on how they grow back together.
    • Environmental factors can influence the expression and adaptation of fungal networks, showcasing their flexibility and ability to fuse back together.
    • The concept of individuality is complex for fungi, as they can exhibit surprising behaviors and adaptability.
    • Music is seen as a powerful illustration of existence as a process in time, with constant changes and nuances that make each experience unique.
    • Improvisation in music is likened to organisms improvising their way through life within constraints and interacting with others in real-time.

    The Art of Improvisation and the Power of Language and Music

    1:06:08 - 1:12:44

    • Improvisation in music is about fitting into a bigger movement and listening to others, rather than just playing your part
    • The potential of a musical piece can be felt even before any sound is produced
    • Improvisation can vary greatly depending on the day and the musician's experiences
    • Approaching work with an improvisational spirit can lead to anxiety but also allows for creativity and growth
    • Free writing and singing with nonsense words are techniques used to tap into the unconscious mind for creative inspiration

    The Speaker's Connection to Music, Language, and Controversial Ideas

    1:12:19 - 1:19:07

    • The speaker prefers listening to audiobooks over reading and has a deep connection to music.
    • Music is seen as a poetic form that allows for individual interpretation, unlike books or movies.
    • Language is considered less specific in conveying emotions compared to music.
    • A discussion about the power of language and music in conveying emotions and personal experiences.
    • The accordion is described as a more sociable instrument compared to the piano.
    • The speaker's father wrote a controversial book on morphic resonance in biology, which was criticized by the scientific community.

    Morphic Resonance, Wood Wide Web, and Mapping Fungal Networks

    1:18:37 - 1:25:35

    • The podcast discusses various topics related to morphic resonance, unexplained powers of animals and humans, science, and spiritual practices.
    • The concept of morphic resonance challenges materialist views of the universe by suggesting forms of causation beyond matter and energy.
    • The wood wide web refers to interconnected networks between plants and fungi, allowing for shared resources and mutual benefits.
    • Fungal networks play a crucial role in ecosystem connectivity, acting as highways for bacteria movement and holding soil together.
    • Efforts are being made to map micro-risile fungal networks globally to better understand their impact on ecosystems.

    Understanding Underground Life and Changing Perspectives

    1:25:10 - 1:30:29

    • Decision makers struggle to consider underground life and soil due to lack of data on who lives where.
    • Efforts are being made to create global models and maps of underground ecosystems by sequencing DNA from soil samples.
    • Current technology for sensing underground life involves disrupting the soil, but there is interest in developing non-disruptive methods like x-ray technology.
    • Fungal networks vary in color and are diverse, similar to the variety of mushrooms.
    • Organisms like trees and fungi often co-create conditions for each other's existence rather than simply being connected entities.
    • Changing perspectives can deepen one's relationship with the living world and promote empathic connections.
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