Lenny's Podcast: Product | Growth | Career
Twitter’s former Head of Product opens up: being fired, meeting Elon, changing stagnant culture, building consumer product, more | Kayvon Beykpour
Description
This episode explores Elon Musk's acquisition of Twitter, the challenges and changes in organizational structure, driving culture change, refining product features, balancing optimization and innovation, acquisitions and staffing strategies, building ambitious teams, balancing frameworks, prioritizing customer needs, lessons from Periscope and live video features, challenges with acquisitions and integration, integration of live video and lessons learned, prioritizing Spaces and future projects, insights and recommendations, as well as early experiences and supportive figures.
Insights
Elon Musk's Acquisition of Twitter
Elon Musk acquired Twitter and KVON Bakepore played a significant role in helping Elon get up to speed at the company. KVON shares insights on transforming Twitter's internal culture and shipping major features regularly. The acquisition of Periscope by Twitter inspired live video features on various social networks. Lessons learned from building and shutting down Periscope are discussed during the conversation.
Meeting with Scott, Elon Musk, and Walter Isaacson
The speaker had a surreal experience meeting with Scott, Elon Musk, and Walter Isaacson to discuss Twitter's past, future, and ambitions. Meeting Elon Musk was exciting as he shared his unique vision for Twitter after acquiring it. The speaker discussed with Elon Musk about empowering employees and brainstorming new products. Changes in the company's organizational structure were addressed after Jack Dorsey resigned from Twitter.
Organizational Structure Changes at Twitter
The speaker initially faced frustration due to the organizational structure at Twitter. Parag's leadership brought about a shift to a GM structure at Twitter, with the speaker being promoted. The speaker was let go by Parag shortly after Elon Musk joined the board. Despite feeling conflicted about leaving Twitter, the speaker saw potential in Elon Musk's ownership.
Driving Culture Change at Twitter
The speaker decided to move on from their current company and product. They reflect on the challenges of being a product manager under a strong-minded founder like Elon Musk. The speaker shares their experience of driving culture change at Twitter. Changing the product culture at Twitter was challenging but eventually led to taking bigger risks and achieving more alignment within the organization.
Refining Product Features and Driving Innovation at Twitter
Transition from reverse chronological timeline to rank timeline helped in user growth. Focus on refining product features rather than adding new capabilities led to user growth but hindered innovation. Feedback from customers played a crucial role in driving product changes at Twitter. Challenging cultural hesitations and sacred cows was necessary for innovation and progress.
Balancing Optimization and Innovation at Twitter
The concept of sacred cows becoming a future roadmap is highlighted. Focusing on optimizing the existing experience and making small improvements can lead to significant growth, alongside taking big bets and experiments. Balancing investments in refining basic product elements with introducing new capabilities is crucial for reliable growth. Building momentum with quick wins of new products creates excitement and trust within the team and executives.
Acquisitions and Staffing Strategies at Twitter
Small acquisitions of entrepreneurial founders have been effective in driving cultural change and product initiatives at Twitter. Acquiring hungry founders and giving them responsibility has been a successful strategy for Twitter. Creating a silo for acquired teams is crucial to prevent suffocation within the larger organization. Staffing based on availability rather than suitability can hinder projects.
Building Ambitious Teams and Balancing Frameworks
Staffing projects with a team obsessed with the idea leads to harder work, creativity, and ambition. It is crucial for an organization to have people who believe in and want to pursue a project, especially if it's speculative or risky. Frameworks like 'jobs to be done' can be unhelpful when followed too strictly without nuance. OKRs can also become unhelpful if they are the only way an organization thinks about what to build.
Balancing Business Outcomes and Customer Needs
Frameworks and metrics in product development may not always align with customer benefits, leading to potential negative experiences for users. Balancing business outcomes with customer needs requires judgment and product taste, rather than relying solely on frameworks like 'jobs to be done.' Over-reliance on frameworks can result in subjectively bad decisions being made. Hyper-focus on driving Daily Active Users (DAU) can limit the ability to explore innovative ideas.
Lessons from Periscope and Live Video Features
Some projects within the organization were structured like startups, focusing on execution rather than OKRs. Periscope was a pioneering live video streaming platform that inspired other social networks. Kobe Bryant participated in an early Periscope beta test and playfully trolled the founder. Periscope failed due to poor retention despite experiencing significant surges in usage. The belief that a consumer product solely focused on live video may not be sustainable.
Challenges with Acquisitions and Integration
A consumer product focused solely on live video may not be sustainable without additional features and capabilities. Products like Instagram and TikTok incorporate both asynchronous and synchronous features. Twitter had the insight to acquire platforms like Vine and Periscope but failed in executing their integration effectively. Twitter's approach of building separate products that competed internally with acquired platforms led to challenges.
Integration of Live Video and Lessons Learned
Twitter initially had separate teams and technologies for user-generated live video content and premium live video like NFL games, leading to a disjointed product experience. Despite initial mistakes, Twitter eventually integrated the technical aspects of live video to provide a cohesive user experience across different types of content. The failure with Periscope led Twitter to learn from its past mistakes.
Prioritizing Spaces and Future Projects
Twitter prioritized Spaces as a top project after the lessons learned from Vine and Periscope. Being a voracious user of products is key to building successful consumer products. The speaker is working on a new consumer product with co-founders, details to be revealed soon. Favorite books include sci-fi and mystery genres like Neil Stevenson's works. Sci-fi content like Star Trek has been inspirational for the speaker.
Insights and Recommendations
The speaker is currently enjoying watching the TV show Tokyo Vice and recommends the sci-fi show Devs for those interested in tech and AI. Asking interviewees about their failures and successes in projects reveals a lot about their self-reflection, willingness to take risks, and ability to learn from failure. The speaker praises the product Perplexity for quickly replacing Google search in certain use cases with AI technology.
Early Experiences and Supportive Figures
First job involved maintaining fire extinguishers in commercial buildings. Received valuable advice from boss to always find something productive to do. Friend Scott Belsky drove cultural change at Adobe and believed in Periscope before it became live video sharing. Scott supported the development of Periscope by actively engaging with the product and investing early on.
Chapters
- Elon Musk's Acquisition of Twitter
- Meeting with Scott, Elon Musk, and Walter Isaacson
- Organizational Structure Changes at Twitter
- Driving Culture Change at Twitter
- Refining Product Features and Driving Innovation at Twitter
- Balancing Optimization and Innovation at Twitter
- Acquisitions and Staffing Strategies at Twitter
- Building Ambitious Teams and Balancing Frameworks
- Balancing Business Outcomes and Customer Needs
- Lessons from Periscope and Live Video Features
- Challenges with Acquisitions and Integration
- Integration of Live Video and Lessons Learned
- Prioritizing Spaces and Future Projects
- Insights and Recommendations
- Early Experiences and Supportive Figures
Elon Musk's Acquisition of Twitter
00:00 - 06:55
- Elon Musk acquired Twitter and KVON Bakepore, the former head of product at Twitter, played a significant role in helping Elon get up to speed at the company.
- KVON shares insights on transforming Twitter's internal culture and shipping major features regularly.
- The acquisition of Periscope by Twitter inspired live video features on various social networks like Instagram, TikTok, and Facebook.
- Lessons learned from building and shutting down Periscope, as well as building consumer products in general, are discussed during the conversation.
Meeting with Scott, Elon Musk, and Walter Isaacson
06:38 - 13:20
- The speaker had a surreal experience meeting with Scott, Elon Musk, and Walter Isaacson in a conference room to discuss Twitter's past, future, and ambitions.
- Meeting Elon Musk was exciting as he shared his unique vision for Twitter after acquiring it.
- The speaker discussed with Elon Musk about empowering employees, brainstorming new products like community notes (birdwatch), spaces, communities, and the creator program.
- After Jack Dorsey resigned from Twitter and Parag Agrawal became CEO, there were changes in the company's organizational structure that addressed previous frustrations of the speaker.
- The speaker felt frustrated and surprised by their departure from Twitter but eventually came to terms with it.
Organizational Structure Changes at Twitter
12:58 - 19:51
- The speaker initially faced frustration due to the organizational structure at Twitter, which hindered progress and caused conflicts.
- Parag's leadership brought about a shift to a GM structure at Twitter, with the speaker being promoted to GM of consumers.
- The speaker was let go by Parag shortly after Elon Musk joined the board and made an offer to buy Twitter.
- Despite feeling conflicted about leaving Twitter, the speaker saw potential in Elon Musk's ownership as a way to overcome governance challenges and focus on product development.
- The speaker found solace in spending time with family and avoiding the drama surrounding Twitter's acquisition by Elon Musk.
Driving Culture Change at Twitter
19:35 - 26:28
- The speaker decided to move on from their current company and product after feeling ready for a change.
- They reflect on the challenges of being a product manager under a strong-minded founder like Elon Musk.
- The speaker shares their experience of driving culture change at Twitter, transitioning from a stagnant product team to one that ships new features frequently.
- Changing the product culture at Twitter was challenging due to the need for alignment from top management and consensus building across functions.
- Despite initial difficulties, the speaker's efforts in changing Twitter's culture eventually led to taking bigger risks and achieving more alignment within the organization.
Refining Product Features and Driving Innovation at Twitter
25:59 - 32:23
- Transition from reverse chronological timeline to rank timeline helped in user growth
- Focus on refining product features rather than adding new capabilities led to user growth but hindered innovation
- Feedback from customers played a crucial role in driving product changes at Twitter
- Challenging cultural hesitations and sacred cows was necessary for innovation and progress
- Encouraging experimentation and pushing boundaries faced resistance within the organization
Balancing Optimization and Innovation at Twitter
32:01 - 38:20
- The concept of sacred cows becoming a future roadmap is highlighted, suggesting a shift in perspective towards what should be prioritized.
- Focusing on optimizing the existing experience and making small improvements can lead to significant growth, alongside taking big bets and experiments.
- Balancing investments in refining basic product elements with introducing new capabilities is crucial for reliable growth.
- Building momentum with quick wins of new products creates excitement and trust within the team and executives, fostering a culture of trying new ideas.
- Storytelling, both internally and externally, plays a vital role in conveying the vision and progress of the company to inspire team members and stakeholders.
- Driving cultural change at leadership levels involves identifying individuals who align with the vision and are willing to contribute towards it, while swiftly addressing those who do not.
Acquisitions and Staffing Strategies at Twitter
37:59 - 44:48
- Small acquisitions of entrepreneurial founders have been effective in driving cultural change and product initiatives at Twitter.
- Acquiring hungry founders and giving them responsibility has been a successful strategy for Twitter, leading to impactful changes.
- Creating a silo for acquired teams is crucial to prevent suffocation within the larger organization and allow for innovation.
- Staffing based on availability rather than suitability can hinder projects and lead to lack of belief and toxicity within teams.
Building Ambitious Teams and Balancing Frameworks
44:37 - 50:59
- Staffing projects with a team obsessed with the idea leads to harder work, creativity, and ambition.
- It is crucial for an organization to have people who believe in and want to pursue a project, especially if it's speculative or risky.
- Frameworks like 'jobs to be done' can be unhelpful when followed too strictly without nuance.
- Jobs to be done can help in understanding customer needs but should not be the sole governing principle of what to build.
- OKRs can also become unhelpful if they are the only way an organization thinks about what to build.
Balancing Business Outcomes and Customer Needs
50:44 - 57:05
- Frameworks and metrics in product development may not always align with customer benefits, leading to potential negative experiences for users.
- Balancing business outcomes with customer needs requires judgment and product taste, rather than relying solely on frameworks like 'jobs to be done.'
- Over-reliance on frameworks can result in subjectively bad decisions being made, indicating the need for a reevaluation of the approach.
- Hyper-focus on driving Daily Active Users (DAU) can limit the ability to explore innovative ideas that may have long-term positive impacts but could initially impact key metrics negatively.
- Organizations should be willing to adjust frameworks and strategies to accommodate new speculative bets that may not immediately boost metrics but could introduce valuable changes over time.
Lessons from Periscope and Live Video Features
56:38 - 1:03:18
- Some projects within the organization were structured like startups, focusing on execution rather than OKRs.
- Periscope was a pioneering live video streaming platform that inspired other social networks to incorporate similar features.
- Kobe Bryant participated in an early Periscope beta test and playfully trolled the founder during a demo.
- Periscope failed due to poor retention despite experiencing significant surges in usage in different markets.
- The belief that a consumer product solely focused on live video may not be sustainable without additional features and community-building capabilities.
Challenges with Acquisitions and Integration
1:02:49 - 1:09:40
- A consumer product focused solely on live video may not be sustainable without additional features and capabilities to support community interaction.
- Products like Instagram and TikTok incorporate both asynchronous and synchronous features, making them more durable.
- Twitter had the insight to acquire platforms like Vine and Periscope but failed in executing their integration effectively.
- Twitter's approach of building separate products that competed internally with acquired platforms led to challenges in realizing the full potential of those acquisitions.
Integration of Live Video and Lessons Learned
1:09:20 - 1:16:25
- Twitter initially had separate teams and technologies for user-generated live video content and premium live video like NFL games, leading to a disjointed product experience.
- Despite initial mistakes, Twitter eventually integrated the technical aspects of live video to provide a cohesive user experience across different types of content.
- The failure with Periscope led Twitter to learn from its past mistakes and prioritize unified leadership and product vision to avoid similar issues in the future.
- Twitter drew inspiration from Clubhouse for its audio features, recognizing the importance of enabling longer and more nuanced conversations on the platform.
- While taking inspiration from Clubhouse, Twitter put its own spin on the concept with spaces, leveraging Twitter's mechanics to create a unique product.
Prioritizing Spaces and Future Projects
1:15:57 - 1:23:28
- Twitter prioritized Spaces as a top project after the lessons learned from Vine and Periscope.
- Being a voracious user of products is key to building successful consumer products.
- The speaker is working on a new consumer product with co-founders, details to be revealed soon.
- Favorite books include sci-fi and mystery genres like Neil Stevenson's works.
- Sci-fi content like Star Trek has been inspirational for the speaker in building products.
- Recent inspiring movies and TV shows for the speaker include 'Dune 2,' 'Oppenheimer,' 'Tokyo Vice,' 'Devs,' and 'Succession.'
Insights and Recommendations
1:23:00 - 1:29:42
- The speaker is currently enjoying watching the TV show Tokyo Vice and recommends the sci-fi show Devs for those interested in tech and AI.
- Asking interviewees about their failures and successes in projects reveals a lot about their self-reflection, willingness to take risks, and ability to learn from failure.
- The speaker praises the product Perplexity for quickly replacing Google search in certain use cases with AI technology.
- The speaker's wife is working on a startup called Particle, which aims to reimagine the news experience using AI to create a new format for news stories.
- The speaker mentions a board game called Croconol that captivates people of all age ranges with its unique mechanics.
Early Experiences and Supportive Figures
1:29:13 - 1:35:25
- First job involved maintaining fire extinguishers in commercial buildings.
- Received valuable advice from boss to always find something productive to do.
- Friend Scott Belsky drove cultural change at Adobe and believed in Periscope before it became live video sharing.
- Scott supported the development of Periscope by actively engaging with the product and investing early on.