Ologies with Alie Ward

Genocidology (CRIMES OF ATROCITY) with Dirk Moses

Wed May 08 2024

genocidewar crimescrimes against humanityinternational lawhuman rights

Description

The episode contains information about crimes of atrocity, including genocide and various forms of violence and prejudice. The host interviews an expert in the science and sociology of genocide to understand its complexity and implications. Genocide is discussed in historical, legal, trauma, and political contexts, exploring questions about humanitarian law and responsibility. The episode delves into the origins of the term 'genocide' and emphasizes the universal desire for safety, security, love, and inclusion. The expert interviewed has a background in studying German history, Australian indigenous issues, and colonial history related to genocide. Dr. Dirk Moses is highlighted as a leading expert in genocide studies with extensive academic credentials and research contributions.

Insights

Genocide involves stripping a national population of political and economic stability, physical safety, access to basic needs, culture, religion, and ultimately life to impose the oppressor's national way on them or eliminate the oppressed group.

Dr. Lemkin introduced the term genocide in 1944, defining it as the destruction of a nation or ethnic group through coordinated actions aimed at annihilating essential foundations of their life.

Genocide is distinct from war crimes and crimes against humanity as it specifically targets protected groups based on nationality, ethnicity, race, or religion.

Crimes against humanity differ from war crimes in that they target civilians in general, regardless of their national identity group, and can occur both during wartime and peacetime.

Genocide cases are complex and difficult to prove due to specific requirements like intent to destroy a national, ethnic, or religious group as such.

Over 65 million people worldwide have been forced to leave home due to armed conflicts, with more than 21 million being refugees.

Genocides are recognized through political resolutions or legal tribunals like the International Court of Justice and the International Criminal Court, where individuals may face prosecution.

The UN aims to maintain international peace and security, promote friendly relations among nations, and encourage respect for human rights.

The concept of genocide is historic and varies greatly in different circumstances.

Different tragedies have different distinctions in terms of remembrance days, with some being universally recognized as genocides while others face opposition in being labeled as such.

Genocide is difficult to prove legally and punitively, leading to challenges in prosecution and consequences for perpetrators.

The stigmatic aura surrounding genocide is related to its association with the Holocaust, which serves as the archetype of genocide due to its attempt at eliminating specific groups based on religion and identity.

Intent is crucial in prosecuting and preventing genocide according to international law.

The Hamas 2017 charter opposes the Israeli state and occupation of Palestine, not the Jewish people.

International conflicts or civil wars can exacerbate intergroup tensions and lead to atrocities, with external powers sometimes playing a role in escalating conflicts.

Cultural narratives play a significant role in shaping how people view themselves and others within their groups, influencing their actions and attitudes towards different groups.

The transformation from a harmonious society to one marked by violence often occurs when perceived differences are combined with a sense of threat posed by another group.

Historically, diverse religious groups have coexisted in harmony, demonstrating that diversity itself is not the root cause of conflict.

The UN Security Council's composition includes five permanent members with veto power, impacting global issues based on their alliances.

Zionism is a movement seeking a Jewish state on historically linked lands in Israel, endorsed after the Holocaust by Britain.

Chapters

Understanding Genocide
Historical Context of Genocide
Key Insights on Genocide
Legal Framework and International Courts
The Role of the United Nations
Impacts and Challenges of Genocide
Defining and Recognizing Genocide
Complexities of Genocide
Colonialism and Genocide
Settler Colonialism and Genocide
Dehumanization and Conflict
Intergroup Tensions and Conflict
Zionism and Conflict
Challenges and Reflections on Genocide
Gender Dynamics in Conflict
Trauma and Politics
Genocide and Climate Change

Summary

Transcript

Understanding Genocide

00:00 - 07:33

The episode contains information about crimes of atrocity, including genocide and various forms of violence and prejudice.
The host interviews an expert in the science and sociology of genocide to understand its complexity and implications.
Genocide is discussed in historical, legal, trauma, and political contexts, exploring questions about humanitarian law and responsibility.
The episode delves into the origins of the term 'genocide' and emphasizes the universal desire for safety, security, love, and inclusion.
The expert interviewed has a background in studying German history, Australian indigenous issues, and colonial history related to genocide.
Dr. Dirk Moses is highlighted as a leading expert in genocide studies with extensive academic credentials and research contributions.

Historical Context of Genocide

07:14 - 15:03

The podcast discusses the emotional impact of World War II and the Holocaust on families, even those not directly affected.
The concept of genocide was developed in 1944 by a Polish lawyer who escaped Europe during World War II.
The Nuremberg trials after World War II focused on crimes against peace, crimes against humanity, and war crimes, but not specifically on genocide.
There were legal loopholes in international law that limited prosecution for crimes committed outside of wartime contexts.
A definition of genocide was established by the United Nations in late 1948 after much debate and negotiation.

Key Insights on Genocide

14:39 - 22:46

Dr. Lemkin introduced the term genocide in 1944, defining it as the destruction of a nation or ethnic group through coordinated actions aimed at annihilating essential foundations of their life.
Genocide involves stripping a national population of political and economic stability, physical safety, access to basic needs, culture, religion, and ultimately life to impose the oppressor's national way on them or eliminate the oppressed group.
Lemkin highlighted that international laws before World War II did not anticipate the extreme nature of German occupation which aimed at destroying nations and ethnicities.
Crimes against humanity differ from war crimes in that they target civilians in general, regardless of their national identity group, and can occur both during wartime and peacetime.
Genocide is distinct from war crimes and crimes against humanity as it specifically targets protected groups based on nationality, ethnicity, race, or religion.

Legal Framework and International Courts

22:19 - 29:52

War crimes, hate crimes, and the concept of 'crime of crimes' are determined by international agreements like the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court.
The International Criminal Court was established in the 1990s to prosecute individuals for genocide, war crimes, crimes against humanity, and crimes of aggression.
The US has been historically opposed to the International Criminal Court, citing justifiable military actions as a reason.
Historically, international conventions like the Hague Conventions of 1899 and 1907 and the Geneva Conventions have outlined rules for warfare and humanitarian treatment of soldiers.
The Red Cross was founded by Henry Dunant after witnessing a battlefield tragedy in Italy in 1859; this led to the establishment of the first Geneva Convention in 1864.
Henry Dunant faced personal struggles but later won the Nobel Peace Prize for his humanitarian efforts.

The Role of the United Nations

29:31 - 37:07

The UN aims to maintain international peace and security, promote friendly relations among nations, and encourage respect for human rights.
The International Court of Justice (ICJ) is the sole international court that works on disputes between nations, based in the Hague, Netherlands.
Additional conventions and protocols were added to the Geneva Conventions in 1949 to protect wounded soldiers, prisoners of war, civilians, and humanitarian aid workers.
In 1977, more protocols were added recognizing wars of national liberation as subject to international laws.
The Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court defines war crimes including willful killing, torture, unlawful deportation, and attacks against civilians or civilian objects.
Genocide is considered the worst crime due to global memory of events like the Holocaust which has intergenerational trauma effects on survivors' descendants.

Impacts and Challenges of Genocide

36:44 - 44:43

Over 65 million people worldwide have been forced to leave home due to armed conflicts, with more than 21 million being refugees.
The effects of violence, war, and displacement can impact generations and how individuals react to their environments.
International courts like the International Criminal Court prosecute individuals for war crimes, genocide, and crimes against humanity.
The United Nations' International Court of Justice handles disputes between states and can issue provisional measures.
Genocide cases are complex and difficult to prove due to specific requirements like intent to destroy a national, ethnic, or religious group as such.

Defining and Recognizing Genocide

44:17 - 52:27

The term 'genocide' was carefully defined during convention negotiations in 1947 and '48 to distinguish between military actions and acts of genocide.
There is a distinction between the intent behind destruction in war and genocide, with legal focus on intent in international courts.
Prosecution of genocide can be challenging due to loopholes and differing interpretations, leading to lengthy legal processes.
Canada recently recognized its historical treatment of Indigenous children as genocide, marking progress but highlighting the need for further action beyond acknowledgment.
Genocides are recognized through political resolutions or legal tribunals like the International Court of Justice and the International Criminal Court, where individuals may face prosecution.
Commemorative days like Holocaust Memorial Day and Armenian Genocide Remembrance Day serve as reminders of past atrocities and promote reflection on history.

Complexities of Genocide

51:59 - 59:49

Different tragedies have different distinctions in terms of remembrance days, with some being universally recognized as genocides while others face opposition in being labeled as such.
Genocide is difficult to prove legally and punitively, leading to challenges in prosecution and consequences for perpetrators.
The stigmatic aura surrounding genocide is related to its association with the Holocaust, which serves as the archetype of genocide due to its attempt at eliminating specific groups based on religion and identity.
States often use justifications like maintaining order or security during conflicts to defend actions that can be considered genocidal, highlighting the complexity of defining and addressing genocide.
Permanent security, defined as the pursuit of absolute safety leading to civilian casualties through indiscriminate violence, is criticized as an unattainable goal that should be illegal.
Genocidal rhetoric throughout history has involved dehumanization of certain groups and calls for annihilation, raising questions about intent and self-defense in cases of mass violence against civilians.

Colonialism and Genocide

59:25 - 1:07:17

Colonial exploitation and occupation often lead to violent reactions from indigenous populations.
The genocide in German Southwest Africa (now Namibia) in the early 20th century was a result of retaliatory actions by indigenous people against German settlers.
Germany issued an apology over 100 years later for the atrocities committed during the genocide in Namibia.
Violations of humanitarian laws, such as indiscriminate attacks on civilians, can be classified as war crimes.
Historical figures like Las Casas criticized colonial conquests and highlighted injustices against indigenous peoples.
Las Casas' writings influenced later generations to speak out against forced labor, slavery, and brutality towards workers.

Settler Colonialism and Genocide

1:06:58 - 1:14:44

Lendt in the 1930s and 40s aligned himself with a humanitarian tradition, acknowledging European presence but advocating against massacring natives.
Resistance to colonization often led to asymmetrical military responses and violence against settlers and their families.
Settler colonialism involves demographic warfare to replace existing populations, as seen in Australia and North America.
The Holocaust genocide was distinct as Jews were not engaged in rebellion against Nazi rule, leading to preemptive killings based on delusional beliefs of Jewish threat.
Dehumanization through language like calling victims vermin or subhumans has been a common theme in genocidal events.

Dehumanization and Conflict

1:14:24 - 1:22:10

The Hamas 2017 charter opposes the Israeli state and occupation of Palestine, not the Jewish people.
Franz Fanon discussed dehumanization under colonial rule, where violence is justified by projecting inferiority onto colonial subjects.
Genocide in international law involves intent, power, and oppression, but can be complex and distorted in reality.
The concept of genocide is historic and varies greatly in different circumstances.
The Great Leap Forward in China resulted in a manmade famine where millions died due to blunders in agricultural policies.
Intent is crucial in prosecuting and preventing genocide according to international law.

Intergroup Tensions and Conflict

1:21:42 - 1:29:49

Cultural narratives play a significant role in shaping how people view themselves and others within their groups, influencing their actions and attitudes towards different groups.
Racialization and discourses of dehumanization are context-specific factors that can contribute to genocidal violence, but they are not the sole explanations for mass violence.
Historically, diverse religious groups have coexisted in harmony, demonstrating that diversity itself is not the root cause of conflict.
The transformation from a harmonious society to one marked by violence often occurs when perceived differences are combined with a sense of threat posed by another group.
International conflicts or civil wars can exacerbate intergroup tensions and lead to atrocities, with external powers sometimes playing a role in escalating conflicts.
Displaced persons have rights under international humanitarian law, such as the right of return, but political complexities can hinder the realization of these rights for refugees.

Zionism and Conflict

1:29:26 - 1:37:21

Zionism is a movement seeking a Jewish state on historically linked lands in Israel, endorsed after the Holocaust by Britain.
There is confusion between Zionism and Judaism, leading to accusations of anti-Semitism for criticizing Israeli policies.
Debates continue on the conflict between states and civilians, with governments resorting to human rights violations to quell uprisings.
China's crackdown on Uighur Muslims involves mass incarceration under the pretext of security concerns and separatist threats.
The UN Security Council's composition includes five permanent members with veto power, impacting global issues based on their alliances.
Historically, societies have tried to eliminate others based on identity threats, with modern nation-states aiming for homogeneity through intervention.

Challenges and Reflections on Genocide

1:36:53 - 1:44:34

Genocides involve attacking entire groups to prevent future threats.
States engage in security measures to preserve themselves, sometimes leading to human rights violations.
Historical examples like Japanese American internment and repatriation drives during the Great Depression highlight past injustices.
Fixation on genocide can detract attention from other mass atrocities that go unnoticed.
Questions arise on preventing genocides, transforming conditions, and international responses to atrocities.
Current events like protests for ceasefire in Gaza raise questions on justified force or defense actions.

Gender Dynamics in Conflict

1:44:06 - 1:52:06

The debate around genocide in Israel is complex and contentious, with differing opinions on the intent behind actions.
The issue of civilian casualties and military campaigns in conflicts like these involves questions of intent rather than just numbers or methods.
Protest movements are mobilizing for a ceasefire and influencing political discourse, with a focus on civilian casualties, particularly children.
There are discussions about the gender aspect of conflict, including the role of men in starting wars and the use of sexual assault as a war crime.

Trauma and Politics

1:51:43 - 1:59:39

Feminist critique highlights toxic masculinity in Israeli-Hamas conflict, advocating for non-violent channels.
Gender differences noted in militarized politics with a focus on trauma and defense cycles.
Senior editor of genocide journal discusses challenges of studying atrocities and vicarious trauma.
Territorialization of conflicts leads to traumatized politics among affiliated societies.
Importance of listening and understanding in dealing with trauma to reduce conflict escalation.
Pessimism expressed regarding global community's ability to address mass atrocities amidst biased information and conflicts worldwide.

Genocide and Climate Change

1:59:11 - 2:05:35

Genocide isn't always the best explanation for mass violence in African states, but climate change exacerbates situations leading to massive migration streams.
Expert advice includes promoting unity, lowering political rhetoric, and listening to victims' stories without forgiving or forgetting historical traumas.
Communities with both victims and perpetrators living together face challenges in conducting politics without repeating genocidal energy from their origins.
Encouragement to ask informed questions, learn from each other's perspectives, and be kind while discussing sensitive topics like genocide.