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    The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast

    372. The Fight Against Worldwide Child Slavery & the Sex Trade | Jim Caviezel and Tim Ballard

    Mon Jul 03 2023
    Child Sex TraffickingOperation Underground RailroadThe Sound of FreedomConspiracy TheoriesChild ExploitationDark CharactersChoosing TruthSupport for VictimsHuman TraffickingAlternative Distribution Methods

    Description

    The episode features Jim Caviesel and Tim Ballard discussing the new film, The Sound of Freedom, which tells the real-life story of Tim Ballard's fight against child sex trafficking. They explore the prevalence of child exploitation worldwide, the role of Operation Underground Railroad in exposing child trafficking, and the criticisms faced by the organization. The episode delves into the personal experiences of Tim Ballard and his journey to found Operation Underground Railroad. It also explores the speaker's confrontation with evil and their approach to playing dark characters. The episode concludes with insights on choosing truth over security, the support for Operation Underground Railroad, and the challenges in combating child exploitation.

    Insights

    The Reality of Child Exploitation

    There are close to 6 million children forced into sex slavery, labor slavery, or organ harvesting worldwide. The United States is the number one consumer and producer of child exploitation material.

    Operation Underground Railroad's Mission

    Operation Underground Railroad films their operations to expose the reality of child trafficking. They have faced criticisms, including false claims that they support conspiracy theories like QAnon.

    Confronting Evil

    The speaker recounts their first experience working on a child sex crimes case, which involved viewing disturbing videos of young boys being abused. Exposure to such material forced the speaker to confront the existence of millions of pedophiles who derive pleasure from watching children being sexually assaulted.

    Tim Ballard's Journey

    Tim Ballard spent 12 years as a special agent investigating child crimes and trafficking. In 2012, he decided to pursue an operation even if it meant losing his job. He founded Operation Underground Railroad and runs another foundation called the Nazarene Fund.

    Understanding Evil

    The speaker discusses the descent into darkness and the importance of maintaining a childlike relationship with God in dealing with the dark places. They emphasize the need to protect children and confront evil.

    Playing Dark Characters

    The speaker explores the rationalization used by criminals, including pedophiles, to justify their actions. They discuss the consequences of playing dark characters and the danger of glorifying villains in Hollywood portrayals.

    Choosing Truth and Embracing Adventure

    The episode highlights the importance of choosing truth over security, speaking the truth even when uncomfortable, and having faith in the unknown outcomes. It explores the personal growth and blessings that come from taking on challenges.

    Support for Operation Underground Railroad

    Glenn Beck funded the rescue operation depicted in the film. Tony Robbins is the single largest donor to Operation Underground Railroad. The organization focuses on spiritual warfare and raising awareness about targeted children.

    The Fight Against Child Exploitation

    The episode addresses the complex issue of human trafficking, concerns about cultural changes eroding laws protecting children, and efforts to secure more theaters for the distribution of 'Sound of Freedom'.

    Alternative Distribution Methods

    The episode discusses multiple venues available for film distribution, success stories of alternative methods like Twitter films, and potential censorship issues on platforms like YouTube.

    Chapters

    1. Introduction
    2. Refuting Conspiracy Theories and Criticisms
    3. The Real-Life Story of Tim Ballard and The Sound of Freedom
    4. Tim Ballard's Journey and Founding Operation Underground Railroad
    5. Confronting Evil and Protecting Children
    6. Understanding Evil and Playing Dark Characters
    7. Unmasking Evil and Dealing with Dark Characters
    8. Approaching Dark Characters and Understanding Evil
    9. Confronting Evil and Finding Truth
    10. Facing Darkness and Embracing Innocence
    11. Choosing Truth and Embracing Adventure
    12. Support and Success for Operation Underground Railroad
    13. The Fight Against Child Exploitation and Cultural Challenges
    14. Alternative Distribution Methods and Overcoming Challenges
    Summary
    Transcript

    Introduction

    00:02 - 07:58

    • The podcast features Jim Caviesel, known for his portrayal of Jesus in Passion of the Christ, and Tim Ballard, the man behind Operation Underground Railroad.
    • They discuss the new film, The Sound of Freedom, which tells the real-life story of Tim Ballard's fight against child sex trafficking.
    • Tim Ballard spent 12 years as a special agent investigating child crimes and trafficking.
    • There are close to 6 million children forced into sex slavery, labor slavery, or organ harvesting worldwide.
    • The United States is the number one consumer and producer of child exploitation material.
    • Mainstream media has not given much attention to this issue due to its dark nature.
    • Operation Underground Railroad films their operations to expose the reality of child trafficking.
    • There are criticisms of Operation Underground Railroad, including false claims that they support conspiracy theories like QAnon.

    Refuting Conspiracy Theories and Criticisms

    07:37 - 14:56

    • The speaker refutes being associated with the QAnon movement and condemns conspiracy theories.
    • They mention a specific conspiracy theory about children's blood consumption, but clarify that it is not supported by evidence.
    • A PR firm made a deal with American Airlines to feature a video, but the deal fell through and caused confusion.
    • Vice magazine has published hit pieces on the speaker and their organization, which they consider dishonest.
    • The speaker dismisses criticism from Vice and mentions that the magazine has declared bankruptcy recently.
    • There is an article criticizing Operation Underground Railway's raid in the Dominican Republic, but the speaker defends their work and highlights successful outcomes of the operation.

    The Real-Life Story of Tim Ballard and The Sound of Freedom

    14:29 - 22:34

    • If anyone's gonna write a story about that operation, good, bad, or otherwise, and they leave out the part that says seven traffickers were arrested and seven traffickers were convicted. And nine children were liberated and have three years of aftercare to heal them.
    • I have three adopted children from China. I became aware of the dangers that go on with children around the world and through that process. Then I became aware of Tim Ballard and coincidentally, then my friend Eduardo Verostegi brought me this script because many of the actors that they had offered it to didn't want to get involved in this particular project.
    • Tim Ballard came to the meeting. He had seen two films that I did. One was called The Count of Monte Cristo and then the other one was the Passion of the Christ, and he felt that I'd be the right guy to play him.
    • Angel Studios wanted to sell 2 million tickets for these 2 million trafficked children.
    • A number of actors turned down the opportunity to play the role because it involved risk.
    • When you have three children that you loved when you'd give your life for, it kind of connects into Tim Ballard and Tim did this for this little girl and the children that he saves.
    • This film is now exposing human trafficking during our time.
    • There's got to be people that stand up in the time that it occurs, and that's what drew me to the whole story in the first place.
    • The movie is about Homeland Security setting up sting operations to take down traffickers and save trafficked children.
    • The movie focuses on a particular case involving sexual trafficking of children, making it more realistic and palpable.

    Tim Ballard's Journey and Founding Operation Underground Railroad

    22:06 - 29:41

    • When laws changed in the United States, US agents were permitted to go overseas and find children who Americans were abusing.
    • The protagonist worked for 12 years as a special agent and undercover operator for the Department of Homeland Security.
    • He was sent overseas south of the border where he saw the children he used to only see on child exploitation material cases.
    • In 2012, he had enough and decided to pursue an operation even if it meant losing his job.
    • His wife supported his decision and felt a calling and responsibility to save kids.
    • They successfully rescued 54 children on an island, but there were actually a hundred children rescued across multiple locations.
    • There is a documentary called Triple Take that will document the entire story.
    • The protagonist founded Operation Underground Railroad and runs another foundation called the Nazarene Fund.

    Confronting Evil and Protecting Children

    29:13 - 37:08

    • The speaker recounts their first experience working on a child sex crimes case, which involved viewing disturbing videos of young boys being abused.
    • The speaker experienced extreme shock and physical illness upon seeing the videos, prompting them to immediately seek help for PTSD.
    • The prevalence of child sexual exploitation material has increased significantly in recent years, with one investigation uncovering one million photos and videos.
    • Exposure to such material forced the speaker to confront the existence of millions of pedophiles who derive pleasure from watching children being sexually assaulted.
    • The speaker's worldview had to change in order to adapt to this reality, including developing a profound understanding of evil and its presence within humanity.
    • The speaker's personal experiences led to paranoia about the safety of their own children, but they remain determined not to quit their work in combating child exploitation.

    Understanding Evil and Playing Dark Characters

    36:38 - 44:16

    • Cain's sacrifices are not of the same quality as Abel's
    • Cain calls out God for creating an unjust cosmos
    • God tells Cain to look at himself and take responsibility
    • Sin crouches at the doorstep, leading to dark fantasies
    • Dark fantasies progress with a desire for novelty and revenge
    • Perverse delight comes from harming innocent people
    • Micro decisions lead to a descent into perversity
    • The book 'Ordinary Men' details how ordinary policemen turned into killers during World War II
    • Micro violations of conscience lead to a descent into hell
    • Overuse of pornography can lead to collaboration with sin

    Unmasking Evil and Dealing with Dark Characters

    43:50 - 50:40

    • Encountered a prisoner who appeared ordinary but had committed heinous crimes
    • Pedophiles and criminals can appear nondescript and blend into society
    • When talking to them, their eyes reveal something unsettling
    • They talk about children as if it's normal, like buying and selling objects
    • Rationalization plays a role in justifying their actions
    • Some justify pedophilia by claiming it allows children to express themselves
    • French intellectuals in the 1970s attempted to reduce the age of consent based on similar rationale
    • Playing dark characters can have consequences for actors' mental well-being

    Approaching Dark Characters and Understanding Evil

    50:10 - 57:54

    • Jim Carrey discusses his approach to playing dark characters, such as serial killers
    • He believes in studying and imitating other actors to learn from their performances
    • Carrey talks about the concept of hurting God by killing innocent children
    • He mentions his role in the movie 'Deja Vu' and how he researched serial killers for it
    • Carrey emphasizes the importance of playing the truth and not being deceived by evil
    • He compares evil to hiding in shadows and trying to mimic God
    • The discussion touches on different interpretations of villains in Hollywood portrayals
    • Carrey expresses concern about glorifying villains and the danger of deceiving the public about evil's true nature
    • There is speculation about the consequences for actors who play dark roles, like Heath Ledger as the Joker
    • Carrey explains that he turns to God for protection against false representations of evil and finds truth in scripture

    Confronting Evil and Finding Truth

    57:25 - 1:04:55

    • There are two masters in life, one from the evil side and one from the light side.
    • The light side tells you what you might not want to hear, but need to hear.
    • The movie 'The Passion of the Christ' depicted the brutal reality of Jesus' suffering.
    • Witnessing extreme violence and contorted faces affected the speaker deeply.
    • People are more afraid of the devil than God because they want a happy Jesus.
    • Eventually, everyone will die, but many are deceived into thinking they'll live forever.
    • God's judgment determines who we truly are, not how we see ourselves.
    • Experiencing pain is better than facing future pain caused by inaction against evil.
    • The speaker's sister wasn't aware of the dangers her daughter faced due to media distortion.
    • Experiencing dark material has made the speaker less concerned about himself and more focused on helping others.
    • 'Becoming as a little child' means rediscovering innocence while retaining adult wisdom.
    • Despite exposure to terrible things, the speaker still maintains a childlike innocence during operations.

    Facing Darkness and Embracing Innocence

    1:04:26 - 1:11:32

    • When doing operations, it involves going into crazy places and talking to monsters and demons.
    • Maintaining a childlike relationship with God helps in dealing with the dark places.
    • The scripture about hurting children reminds of the importance of protecting them.
    • The passion story is a tragedy where the worst possible thing happens to the least deserving person.
    • Christ's descent into hell represents facing malevolence and redeeming oneself.
    • Malevolence is more terrifying than death or suffering.
    • To go through rebirth, one must willingly bear the weight of hell and embrace a spirit of childhood.
    • Facing darkness has made the speaker a better person by relying on Jesus to bear the burden.
    • The speaker's wife helped him understand that giving the burden to God allows clarity and courage to help children.
    • The two paths presented were going into Columbia for an operation or retiring comfortably with government benefits.
    • In imagining talking to their maker, saving children becomes an important question.

    Choosing Truth and Embracing Adventure

    1:11:03 - 1:18:18

    • When faced with a decision between a secure but unfulfilling job and an uncertain path, choosing the latter can lead to immense personal growth and adventure.
    • Avoiding things that frighten you or stand in your way can weaken you in the long run.
    • Speaking the truth, even when it's uncomfortable, can lead to unexpected benefits and opportunities.
    • Choosing security over truth often results in violating one's own integrity and living in false security.
    • Having faith in the unknown outcomes of speaking the truth can lead to a more fulfilling life.
    • The speaker's wife had insights from motherhood and her relationship with God that allowed her to support his decision to leave his job.
    • Financial support manifested itself through personal resources gathered by the speaker after quitting his job.

    Support and Success for Operation Underground Railroad

    1:17:54 - 1:24:20

    • Glenn Beck funded the rescue operation depicted in the film
    • The decision to leave their jobs and risk living in a tent actually led to more financial security and opportunities
    • Taking on challenges can lead to blessings and good things in life
    • Tony Robbins is the single largest donor to Operation Underground Railroad
    • Operation Underground Railroad focuses on spiritual warfare and raising awareness about targeted children
    • The next steps involve addressing human trafficking through spiritual warfare and raising awareness

    The Fight Against Child Exploitation and Cultural Challenges

    1:23:51 - 1:31:09

    • Human trafficking is a complex issue that requires attention
    • Children are being targeted more than ever before
    • There are concerns about unaccompanied minors being brought into America without proper oversight
    • Groups are trying to change the language around pedophilia and sexualize children
    • Teachers in some states are providing controversial sex education to children
    • There are concerns about the consent of minors for gender mutilation and hormone treatments
    • The laws protecting children from exploitation may be eroded by cultural changes
    • A survivor of medical interventions shared her experiences with dating and online relationships
    • The next project for the speaker is a film on Haiti, followed by a resurrection of the Christ movie with Mel Gibson
    • The release of 'Sound of Freedom' faced resistance but has potential for commercial success
    • Efforts are being made to secure more theaters for the film's distribution

    Alternative Distribution Methods and Overcoming Challenges

    1:30:45 - 1:34:36

    • Multiple venues now available for film distribution
    • Success of alternative distribution methods like Matt Walsh's Twitter film
    • Angel Studios' success with unorthodox online channels
    • Elon Musk's tweet opening up Twitter as a distribution platform
    • Upcoming Twitter release in mid-July
    • Interview on the daily wire plus side with Tim and Jim about their developmental route to success
    • Curiosity about how destinies manifest in people's lives and the interplay between psyche and the world
    • Pressure from YouTube leading to support for daily wire plus
    • Acknowledgment of potential censorship issues on YouTube
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