Money Matters with Jack Mallers
EP. 1: JACK DORSEY
The episode covers a wide range of topics, including the American empire mindset, the power of media, regulatory capture, JFK's assassination, the industrial complex, fiat currency, government actions during COVID-19, Bitcoin's role in challenging government control and providing financial freedom, Bitcoin's ideals, relevance, and potential impact on society, Bitcoin's decentralization, resilience, and potential irrelevance, Bitcoin's relevance, altcoins, and Elon Musk's involvement, Mark Andreessen, Web3, and the importance of Bitcoin, Twitter's challenges, Blue Sky protocol, and decentralization of the internet, voting, central bank digital currencies, and fixing the money system, building a system that values collective contributions and appreciating different voices, questioning abstractions, punk music, and authentic conversations, and punk, abstractions, and Bitcoin's potential impact on society.
The power of media to control people's opinions
The speaker emphasizes the importance of being critical of the information we consume and considering different sources.
Bitcoin's potential to fix many problems
Bitcoin has the potential to address issues such as regulatory capture, profit incentives from corporations, and government control over money.
The industrial complex's negative impact
The industrial complex has become a machine that enforces its will on others, benefiting those involved in weapons production and warfare.
Bitcoin's transparent code-based policy
Bitcoin provides a transparent code-based policy that is necessary for countries with failing governments and high inflation rates.
Bitcoin's relevance and potential for world peace
Bitcoin can be seen as a rallying point for America in the face of global challenges and offers an alternative to centralized systems.
The importance of protocols in decentralization
Decentralized technologies like Bitcoin and protocols like Noster are crucial for creating a better financial system and empowering individuals.
The risk of distraction from altcoins
Alternative cryptocurrencies like Dogecoin distract from solving real issues like world peace and poverty.
Twitter's challenges and the need for decentralization
Twitter faced challenges in growth and policy decisions, but the speaker believes in protocols like Noster to decentralize the public conversation.
The importance of fixing the money system
Fixing the money system can have a significant impact on solving other problems in the world.
Questioning abstractions and embracing authenticity
Constantly questioning and trying new things is necessary for growth, and artists who express themselves authentically have no name or label.
- The American Empire Mindset and the Power of Media
- Regulatory Capture, JFK's Assassination, and the Industrial Complex
- The Industrial Complex, Fiat Currency, and Government Actions during COVID-19
- Bitcoin's Role in Challenging Government Control and Providing Financial Freedom
- Bitcoin's Ideals, Relevance, and Potential Impact on Society
- Bitcoin's Principles, Accessibility, and Potential for World Peace
- Bitcoin's Decentralization, Resilience, and Potential Irrelevance
- Bitcoin's Relevance, Altcoins, and Elon Musk's Involvement
- Mark Andreessen, Web3, and the Importance of Bitcoin
- Bitcoin as a Rallying Point, Beef with Mark Zuckerberg, and the Evolution of Twitter
- Twitter's Challenges, Blue Sky Protocol, and Decentralization of the Internet
- Decentralization, Discovery Problem, and the Importance of Protocols
- Bitcoin's Consensus Model, Competition, and Profit Incentives
- Square's Efforts in Decentralizing Bitcoin and Promoting Financial Freedom
- Twitter's Challenges, Blue Sky Protocol, and Decentralization of the Internet (Continued)
- Twitter's Challenges, Blue Sky Protocol, and Decentralization of the Internet (Continued)
- Ethical Challenges, Trust, and Protocols for Preventing Future Mistakes
- Voting, Central Bank Digital Currencies, and Fixing the Money System
- Building a System that Values Collective Contributions and Appreciating Different Voices
- Questioning Abstractions, Punk Music, and Authentic Conversations
- Punk, Abstractions, and Bitcoin's Potential Impact on Society
The American Empire Mindset and the Power of Media
00:04 - 08:02
- The speaker tweeted about America having a problem and the end of an empire.
- The tweets were inspired by a Beyonce concert and Robert F. Kennedy's podcast.
- The media has the power to control people's opinions and influence them.
- It is important to be critical of the information we consume and consider different sources.
- The American empire mindset needs to end in order to focus on domestic issues.
- Money, particularly the US dollar, is being challenged by China and Bitcoin.
- Bitcoin offers a shared concept of money that is not controlled by governments or corporations.
Regulatory Capture, JFK's Assassination, and the Industrial Complex
07:37 - 15:51
- RFK points out problems in regulatory capture and the profit incentive from corporations
- RFK answers questions with curiosity and a willingness to be wrong
- RFK speaks in a humanitarian approach and vocabulary
- Bitcoin has the potential to fix many of the discussed problems
- The assassination of JFK by the government was a major milestone
- JFK wanted to pull back from military involvement and distrusted the military industrial complex
- The government may have felt threatened by JFK's agenda and lost power
- Compounding events build upon each other, creating momentum that is hard to get out of
The Industrial Complex, Fiat Currency, and Government Actions during COVID-19
15:21 - 23:05
- The momentum of the moment often blinds people to things that hurt our country.
- The industrial complex problem started after World War II, with the continuation of the fight against the Soviet Union and the Cold War.
- Wars became extremely profitable, leading to a shift in incentives for profit.
- The creation of fiat currency during World War I made war more profitable and attainable.
- Efficiency in waging war led to a system that no longer works for the people but benefits those involved in weapons production and warfare.
- World War I marked a shift from citizens funding wars through government bonds to governments borrowing money from citizens, resulting in inflation.
- The industrial complex has become a machine that enforces its will on others, regardless of personal opinions or desires.
- Switching from gold-backed currency to fiat currency allows governments to take wealth from individuals through inflation.
- Government actions during COVID-19, such as monetary stimulation, have resulted in increased expenses and decreased savings for individuals.
Bitcoin's Role in Challenging Government Control and Providing Financial Freedom
22:39 - 30:21
- The government's ability to divorce from something like gold leads to dangerous incentives and funding the worst of humanity.
- The government's creation of more dollars through stimulus devalues people's hard-earned money, effectively stealing from them.
- Bitcoin was created as a way to remove abstractions and indirection in the financial system.
- Bitcoin provides a transparent code-based policy that is necessary for countries with failing governments and high inflation rates.
- Satoshi's concept of proof of work and electricity as value earned resonates with those who need a reliable means of transmitting money and exchanging value.
Bitcoin's Ideals, Relevance, and Potential Impact on Society
30:04 - 38:12
- Assassinating your own president was profitable and helpful for achieving certain missions.
- The abstraction of nature through man-made abstractions can lead to a loss of empathy and a distorted perception of reality.
- Abstractions can be controlled by individuals or groups, allowing them to manipulate the narrative and pursue their own interests.
- Bitcoin was initially inspired by the ideals of individual control and protection against surveillance.
- The ultimate goal of the cypherpunk movement was to solve the double spending problem in money.
- Satoshi's creation of Bitcoin was mind-blowing and enabled people to create value in a decentralized manner.
- Satoshi remained politically neutral and avoided leaning too heavily in any particular direction.
Bitcoin's Principles, Accessibility, and Potential for World Peace
37:52 - 45:58
- Satoshi's political leanings were focused on code as policy.
- Bitcoin attracted people with ideals like Austrian economics and libertarianism.
- Bitcoin's transparent proof of work system aligns with these theories and mindsets.
- Bitcoin's ideals, including clear law that can be read by anyone, are important for achieving world peace.
- Bitcoin offers an alternative to centralized systems and empowers local communities.
- Bitcoin enables the creation of small circular economies that are not dependent on distant governments.
- Bitcoin is one tool among others, such as Noster and simplex, that shift power back to individuals.
- Supporting projects that empower individuals is important for the speaker in their current phase of life.
- Satoshi's anonymity and ability to walk away from Bitcoin without benefiting personally demonstrate a lack of ego and a focus on building something bigger than oneself.
Bitcoin's Decentralization, Resilience, and Potential Irrelevance
45:42 - 53:03
- Bitcoin is trying to restore money back to the people and solve financial inclusion problems.
- Bitcoin has been stereotyped and co-opted by other cryptocurrencies, which creates a hurdle for its acceptance.
- People find reasons to be mad at Bitcoin, such as environmental impact.
- The power of Bitcoin lies in its decentralized nature, making it resilient even if individuals associated with it are taken out.
- Assassinations or threats against individuals in the Bitcoin space do not impact Bitcoin itself.
- Ideas and code cannot be deleted or canceled, making them powerful and unstoppable.
- The greatest risk to Bitcoin is irrelevance if companies stop promoting its utility and accessibility.
- Bitcoin's potential lies in fixing currency and value exchange on an individual level.
- If people stop caring about Bitcoin and building for it, it can quickly become irrelevant.
- Accessibility is crucial for Bitcoin's relevance worldwide.
Bitcoin's Relevance, Altcoins, and Elon Musk's Involvement
52:40 - 1:00:43
- Bitcoin's relevance is important because it brings power and accessibility to people around the world.
- Bitcoin can be seen as the new 'house on a hill' with ideals of freedom and equality.
- The end of an empire mindset is beneficial for America and its ideals.
- Bitcoin is a superior technology at implementing these ideals compared to America.
- Alternative cryptocurrencies like Dogecoin distract from solving real issues like world peace and poverty.
- Elon Musk's involvement with Dogecoin can be seen as a diversion, but he still believes in Bitcoin's principles.
- Distraction caused by hype around altcoins can lead to financial losses for investors.
- Bitcoin has unique attributes that make it suitable as a currency, unlike other cryptocurrencies.
- Further abstraction of the definition of cryptocurrency allows other projects to take advantage of people.
Mark Andreessen, Web3, and the Importance of Bitcoin
1:00:17 - 1:07:33
- Mark Andreessen and other venture capitalists have hyped up technologies like Web3 without real principles or fundamentals.
- The technology field is extremely trendy, with trends changing rapidly.
- Jack Dorsey wishes that Mark Andreessen would focus on Bitcoin and fund its development instead of getting caught up in Web3.
- Dorsey believes that Bitcoin is a powerful force for bettering the world and wants more support for it.
- Dorsey thinks that Web3 technologies were not authentic and their investment methodology was also not authentic.
- He believes in building something like Bitcoin, which is first principled and doesn't have to be owned by a single person or company.
- Dorsey wants Mark Andreessen to help with Bitcoin's development and discuss his reasons if he disagrees with its potential impact on society.
Bitcoin as a Rallying Point, Beef with Mark Zuckerberg, and the Evolution of Twitter
1:07:08 - 1:14:39
- Bitcoin can be seen as a rallying point for America in the face of global challenges.
- The speaker wonders how beef between individuals like Mark Zuckerberg and himself works, comparing it to beef between rappers.
- The speaker clarifies that he wouldn't necessarily label his disagreements with Mark Zuckerberg as a beef, but rather as disagreements in approaches.
- Twitter was discovered rather than invented, with unexpected features emerging during its development.
- Users played a significant role in shaping Twitter's direction through their interactions and feedback.
- The API provided by Twitter allowed developers to create various applications and clients for the platform.
- The use of the "@" symbol to reference other users and the "#" symbol for hashtags became defining aspects of Twitter's conversation platform.
- Tim O'Reilly popularized the concept of retweeting by copying and pasting interesting tweets from people he followed.
- Facebook has a strong point of view on what they want the world to be like, while Twitter observed user behavior and adapted accordingly.
Twitter's Challenges, Blue Sky Protocol, and Decentralization of the Internet
1:14:09 - 1:21:43
- The speaker agrees that they fell into their approach because they observed what people wanted, while Facebook had a strong point of view and executed it.
- The speaker disagrees with Facebook's approach but appreciates different approaches.
- Engaging in beefs with Mark Zuckerberg becomes fun for the speaker.
- Elon Musk has a beef with Mark Zuckerberg and they are going into an MMA fight.
- Mark Zuckerberg takes on personal challenges every year, such as killing and eating his own goat.
- The speaker believes Mark Zuckerberg would appreciate the principles behind Bitcoin but started Libra instead.
- The speaker sees a change in Mark Zuckerberg's personality and gives him credit for open sourcing AI.
- Facebook's idea to provide a currency to people in Africa made business sense but was not right for those people or the world.
- The speaker respects someone's ability to change, admit mistakes, and go in a different direction.
- Twitter's mission was to serve the public conversation by building the public park for conversation.
- The speaker believes no one company should own the public conversation and supports protocols like Noster for Twitter to build upon.
- Decentralized technologies like IRC, Usenet, email, and Gopher were used before Google and were better for humanity.
Decentralization, Discovery Problem, and the Importance of Protocols
1:21:16 - 1:28:57
- The internet before Google was decentralized, with technologies like IRC, Usenet, email, and Gopher.
- The problem with decentralized technology is discovery - how to find what you're looking for.
- Google solved the discovery problem by centralizing information.
- Big tech companies like Google, Facebook, Twitter, TikTok, and Pinterest are focused on solving the discovery problem.
- Block explorers on top of Bitcoin demonstrate decentralized solutions to censorship.
- There are better answers to the discovery problem that are truly decentralized and empower individuals.
- Companies can coexist in a world where discovery is decentralized and compete in experience and execution.
- A common protocol can benefit both Bitcoin and other companies working in the space.
- Decentralization aligns with the early ideals of the internet and individual empowerment.
- Centralized forces like domain names can compromise the decentralized nature of the internet.
Bitcoin's Consensus Model, Competition, and Profit Incentives
1:28:40 - 1:36:26
- Bitcoin operates on a consensus model that involves developers, node operators, and miners.
- Bitcoin's model is different from the standards body approach used by the rest of the internet.
- Competition in the Bitcoin space is seen as being on the same team, with benefits for all involved.
- Facebook and Microsoft have historically operated with a cutthroat competition mindset.
- Google has contributed to open source protocols and had an open source ethos.
- Facebook is now known for its open source work around AI, while OpenAI is not truly open.
- Mastodon may not have the decentralized principles needed for a Twitter clone; Noster could be a better option.
- The profit-seeking nature of humans can be attributed to self-interest and survival instincts.
- Profit incentive should be aligned with benefiting people, which Bitcoin achieves naturally.
- Societal incentives and power structures may have flaws that need reconsideration.
- Satoshi Nakamoto's creation of Bitcoin removed abstractions and brought value to users.
- Profiting from Bitcoin can benefit users through increased adoption, relevance, and investment in infrastructure.
Square's Efforts in Decentralizing Bitcoin and Promoting Financial Freedom
1:36:05 - 1:43:44
- Square is building a mining rig to make Bitcoin mining more efficient and decentralized
- The goal is to have millions of miners instead of a few large ones, which would increase network security
- Square also aims to build a space heater that mines Bitcoin and pays for its own electricity
- By promoting non-custodial Bitcoin wallets, at-home miners, and running nodes, Square wants to decentralize Bitcoin and remove single points of failure
- Square believes in creating profitable businesses that benefit individuals who use the same protocol, unlike platforms like Facebook or YouTube where users don't directly profit from their usage
- Advertising models often incentivize negative behaviors and compromise the message being conveyed
- If Bitcoin existed when Twitter started, Square wouldn't have had an advertising business and believes it would be healthier as a company
- Open protocols like Bitcoin are necessary for creating a better financial system that puts power back in the hands of individuals
- Money is important, as seen in historical events like the Bank of England funding World War I through credit instead of gold reserves
- Fixing the money system can have a significant impact on fixing other problems in the world
Twitter's Challenges, Blue Sky Protocol, and Decentralization of the Internet (Continued)
1:43:37 - 1:52:12
- The speaker feels guilt about the actions and decisions made by bigger companies like Twitter and Facebook, which prioritize profit over the best interests of the people.
- Twitter had the potential to be a protocol but decided to become a company instead, which the speaker doesn't necessarily agree with.
- The speaker is happy that protocols like FIAJAF and Blue Sky are being created without any direction from Twitter.
- The speaker worked hard to find a non-advertising based revenue stream for Twitter.
- Twitter faced challenges in growth and product confusion when competing against advertising giants like Facebook and Google.
- The speaker felt gut-wrenched when Twitter was constantly compared to Facebook, losing its unique identity.
- Twitter made changes to mimic other platforms, chipping away at its own soul.
- Twitter reacted reactively rather than thoughtfully in making policy decisions around speech on the platform, leading to loss of trust from users.
- Advertisers threatening to pull their spending due to policy concerns caused stock price plummeting and employee departures.
- The speaker didn't have the courage or focus to do what they wanted with Twitter as a public company dependent on advertising revenue.
- Creating the blue sky protocol within Twitter gave the speaker hope for making necessary changes as a public company serving the public conversation inclusively.
Twitter's Challenges, Blue Sky Protocol, and Decentralization of the Internet (Continued)
1:51:42 - 2:00:06
- The speaker wanted to remove permanent bans and create an open-source algorithm for Twitter.
- Investors were concerned about the risk to revenue when the algorithm was made open source.
- The speaker preferred working on protocols and saw potential in Bitcoin.
- The speaker believed that Twitter needed to become a private company to reset its revenue model.
- Elon Musk's bid for Twitter prevented another activist investor from potentially destroying the company.
- The speaker believes that Twitter should be based on a protocol to earn trust in content moderation.
- The burden of decision-making on Twitter's policies should be on code and policy, not a single person.
- The speaker wants users to have the ability to change the architecture of social media platforms like Twitter.
Ethical Challenges, Trust, and Protocols for Preventing Future Mistakes
1:59:39 - 2:07:29
- The podcast discusses the ethical challenges faced by Twitter and its former CEO.
- The host praises the guest as one of the greatest product minds in history.
- The guest reflects on his time at Twitter and the difficult position he was in, balancing the company's interests with individual concerns.
- The guest acknowledges that government agencies make requests of companies like Twitter, and there was some overreach during his tenure.
- There were instances where personal biases may have influenced actions within the company.
- The guest admits that he may not have been fully aware of everything happening within Twitter during his time as CEO.
- Trusting employees to do what they think is right was a key management philosophy at Twitter.
- The guest hoped for increased transparency within the company and desired a world without permanent bans, with an appeal process in place.
- The team at Twitter was working towards allowing users to choose their own algorithms or turn them off completely.
- The guest believes that releasing all emails would provide context and show how decisions were made at Twitter.
- Despite criticism, the guest believes that Twitter had a good heart and tried to do right by people, including those on the political right.
- The guest emphasizes the importance of protocols to prevent similar issues from happening again.
Voting, Central Bank Digital Currencies, and Fixing the Money System
2:07:13 - 2:14:48
- Voting is a significant action in participating in democracy.
- We can vote for people who will bring transparency to policy-making and running the country.
- Central bank digital currencies (CBDCs) have policies that may not be appreciated by everyone.
- China's CBDC allows the government to expire money, influencing spending in the economy.
- Lack of awareness about monetary policies and decision-makers is a threat to freedom.
- Money is an emotional concept that affects everyone's life.
- Bitcoin presents an opportunity for people to feel good about money.
- Money is a technology created to solve the coincidence of wants problem and capture collective contributions to society.
- The Federal Reserve causing inflation devalues people's contributions to society.
- A system that values independent contributions in a free market would be fair.
Building a System that Values Collective Contributions and Appreciating Different Voices
2:14:28 - 2:21:43
- Building a system that values collective contributions to society in a free market
- Appreciating different voices and expressions in hip hop and music
- Learning from artists like Jay, Kendrick, Nina Simone, Erica Badu, Beyonce, Solange, Radiohead, and Johnny Cash
- Admiring Kanye's fearlessness in expressing himself and evolving as an artist
- Importance of personal evolution and staying relevant as an individual or company
- Tendency to become more cautious and precious about what we have as we get older
- Hesitation to take on new things due to fear of potential harm or discomfort
Questioning Abstractions, Punk Music, and Authentic Conversations
2:28:52 - 2:36:22
- Being hesitant and precious about past decisions can hinder progress
- Constantly questioning and trying new things is necessary for growth
- The world is always evolving, and we must adapt to survive
- Hip hop and punk music questioned everything and embraced imperfection
- Open source communities thrive on feedback and improvement
- Achieving greatness means transcending labels and genres
- Seeing someone as a human beyond stereotypes is powerful
- Artists who express themselves authentically have no name or label
Punk, Abstractions, and Bitcoin's Potential Impact on Society
2:36:03 - 2:42:06
- Punk is an American cornerstone with a healthy attitude and energy.
- The incentives around war and opposition have become misaligned and profit-driven.
- Kennedy represents a curious, self-reflective truth seeker in America.
- Kanye West is a true artist who upsets people but challenges norms.
- We are questioning the abstractions we've created in the natural world.
- RFK questions regulatory capture and complex systems like the military industrial complex.
- Satoshi pierced through the abstraction of money with Bitcoin.
- We should critically examine the abstractions we create for ourselves and consider improving or eliminating them.
- It's a unique time to be alive, and authentic conversations are important.