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    The Bill Simmons Podcast

    Portland’s Dilemma, the Rise of Autobiographical Docs, Memory Loss Benefits, and Fun Conspiracies With Chuck Klosterman

    Fri Jul 14 2023
    SportsNBAMusicDocumentariesLegacyCultureMemoryReality

    Description

    Chuck Klosterman discusses the potential trade of Damian Lillard and the impact on the Portland Trail Blazers. The Miami Heat's unique culture and Erik Spoelstra's coaching style are explored. The legacy and impact of Damian Lillard and other NBA players are examined. The changing landscape of music, the influence of individual artists vs. bands, and the impact on young aspiring musicians are discussed. The power of documentaries in storytelling and their impact on legacy are analyzed. The perception of reality and fascination with unreal beings is explored. The impact of social media and changing dynamics in online platforms are examined. The power of forgetting and its impact on personal experiences is discussed. The nature of memories and their impact on personal narratives is explored.

    Insights

    The potential trade of Damian Lillard has sparked discussion about loyalty in sports

    Chuck Klosterman discusses the potential trade of Damian Lillard, highlighting the loyalty he has shown to the Portland Trail Blazers. This raises questions about the role of loyalty in sports and how fans react to trades involving beloved players.

    The Miami Heat's unique culture sets them apart from other franchises

    The Miami Heat have a unique culture and look for specific types of players. Erik Spoelstra, the Heat coach, is highly intelligent and has a good sense of what is real. This unique culture has made the Heat difficult not to root for during the NBA season.

    Legacy and impact are important factors in determining the best players in NBA history

    The legacy and impact of NBA players like Damian Lillard, Mark Aguirre, Bill Walton, Kawhi Leonard, and Kyle Lowry are discussed. Legacy can be easily forgotten, and the ending of Lillard's career will determine how he is remembered among Blazers greats.

    The changing landscape of music has led to more individual artists than bands

    The economics of being in a band can be challenging, leading to fewer successful bands. There are now more individual artists than bands, with pop dominating over rock. Taylor Swift, Beyonce, and Kanye West are considered the most influential musicians of the last 15 years.

    Documentaries provide unique insights into the lives of musicians and their journeys

    Documentaries on bands like REM, Dinosaur Jr., and the Melvins offer interesting insights into their journeys as musicians. The power of found footage and behind-the-scenes moments in documentaries is highlighted.

    The fascination with unreal beings and the impact of social media on storytelling

    The fascination with unreal beings, such as UFO sightings, is explored. The impact of social media on storytelling and the ability to share unusual events is discussed.

    Forgetting certain things can lead to rediscovery and new perspectives

    The power of forgetting and its impact on personal experiences is examined. Forgetting certain things can allow for the rediscovery of tastes, relationships, and personal growth.

    Memories shape personal narratives and can be distorted over time

    The nature of memories and their impact on personal narratives is explored. Memories are not always accurate representations of events and can become distorted over time.

    Chapters

    1. Chuck Klosterman discusses potential trade of Damian Lillard
    2. Possible trade destinations for Damian Lillard and impact on Miami Heat
    3. The unique culture of the Miami Heat and Erik Spoelstra's coaching style
    4. Legacy and impact of Damian Lillard and other NBA players
    5. Discussion on the best Raptor ever and trade decisions
    6. Impact of partnerships and group dynamics in music and entertainment
    7. Evolution of music industry and influence of individual artists vs. bands
    8. Changing landscape of music and influence on young aspiring musicians
    9. Documentaries as a medium and their impact on storytelling
    10. Different perspectives on being a musician and making documentaries
    11. Arnold Schwarzenegger's documentary and the nature of autobiographies
    12. Impact of documentaries on legacy and storytelling in sports
    13. Different approaches to making documentaries and the power of found footage
    14. Perception of reality and the fascination with unreal beings
    15. Perception of reality and the fascination with unreal beings (continued)
    16. Impact of social media and changing dynamics in online platforms
    17. The power of forgetting and the impact on personal experiences
    18. The nature of memories and their impact on personal narratives
    Summary
    Transcript

    Chuck Klosterman discusses potential trade of Damian Lillard

    00:03 - 06:48

    • Chuck Klosterman, a guest on the podcast, discusses the potential trade of Damian Lillard
    • Lillard has been beloved for his loyalty to the team
    • There is a detachment from being too emotional about the trade
    • People in Portland seem to have an understanding that the trade may happen
    • It is unlikely that Lillard will be booed if he returns to Portland after being traded

    Possible trade destinations for Damian Lillard and impact on Miami Heat

    06:18 - 13:09

    • Sports fandom decreases as you move to the West.
    • Damian Lillard may not get exactly what he wants in a trade, unlike other superstars.
    • Miami seems like the most likely destination for Lillard, but the deal is taking longer than expected.
    • There is a sentiment that teams should trade superstars when they request it after many years of service.
    • The Blazers have Scoot Henderson as a potential replacement for Lillard.
    • Having both Lillard and Henderson on the floor together could work despite their size.
    • The Blazers might wait until December or January before making a decision on trading Lillard.
    • Miami's future depends on acquiring Lillard, and if it doesn't happen, they could struggle next season.
    • Heat culture is real and involves looking for specific types of players with certain character traits.

    The unique culture of the Miami Heat and Erik Spoelstra's coaching style

    12:48 - 19:22

    • The Miami Heat have a unique culture and look for specific types of players
    • They have a sense of talent and judge character traits better than other franchises
    • They don't necessarily need to keep adding superstars
    • Erik Spoelstra, the Heat coach, has an interesting background as a player
    • Spoelstra is highly intelligent and has a good sense of what is real
    • Jimmy Butler understands how the NBA works better than other players
    • The Heat were difficult not to root for during the NBA season
    • Spoelstra understands the rhythm of a game and when to make strategic moves
    • Butler is not one of the best players in the league but excels in certain settings
    • Kevin Durant is also suited for different basketball situations
    • Butler has had one of the weirdest careers in NBA history

    Legacy and impact of Damian Lillard and other NBA players

    19:05 - 25:15

    • Mark Aguirre had an excellent career in the 80s and was considered one of the best scorers in the league.
    • Aguirre is often forgotten now, but he deserves recognition for his impact on the game.
    • He may not be a Hall of Famer, but he is comparable to some players who have made it.
    • Legacy can be easily forgotten, as seen with Clyde Drexler being overshadowed by Bill Walton as the greatest Blazer ever.
    • Damian Lillard is now a strong contender for that title due to his popularity and success.
    • The ending of Lillard's career will determine how he is remembered and where he stands among Blazers greats.
    • Bill Walton's career was short but impactful, making him a strong candidate for consideration as well.
    • Kawhi Leonard's one-year tenure with the Raptors makes him a contender for their best player ever, possibly surpassing Vince Carter.
    • Kyle Lowry also has a strong case based on his longevity and contributions to the team.

    Discussion on the best Raptor ever and trade decisions

    24:46 - 31:41

    • Possible candidates for the best Raptor ever discussed
    • Mark Aguirre's scoring prowess and lack of recognition mentioned
    • The Pistons' decision to trade Dantley debated
    • '88 Pistons team's loss to the Lakers in the finals questioned

    Impact of partnerships and group dynamics in music and entertainment

    31:19 - 37:38

    • Partnerships where one person ascends over the other can create tension and dissatisfaction
    • Examples include George Michael's success overshadowing his bandmate's, Sean Michaels becoming a solo star while Marty Jeannetti faded away, and Key and Peele's split resulting in Jordan Peele's successful directing career
    • In some cases, both parties are cool with each other's success
    • Group dynamics can be enjoyable, but individual ambitions often lead to one person winning out
    • Working closely with the same people for many years can foster a sense of stability and collaboration

    Evolution of music industry and influence of individual artists vs. bands

    37:20 - 44:07

    • Bands that stay together for a long time tend to split the money equally, which sustains long-term success.
    • The economics of being in a band can be challenging, leading to fewer successful bands.
    • There are now more individual artists than bands, with pop dominating over rock.
    • The length of time bands have existed has surpassed that of influential musicians from previous eras.
    • Taylor Swift, Beyonce, and Kanye West are considered the most influential musicians of the last 15 years.
    • Billie Eilish and her brother mainstreamed the idea of making music at home without conforming to traditional standards.

    Changing landscape of music and influence on young aspiring musicians

    43:55 - 51:04

    • The idea of inspiring young people through music has changed over time.
    • Rock and pop music used to be specifically designed for teenagers and young people, but now it appeals to all age groups.
    • Billie Eilish's influence on young aspiring musicians is different because pop music is no longer exclusively for young people.
    • Vampire Weekend and Taylor Swift are influential rock musicians that aspiring musicians may emulate.
    • Taylor Swift's prolific career and continuous improvement in her work is unusual in the music industry.
    • Kids today are socialized to have an adult understanding of the world before they actually experience it.
    • Taylor Swift prepared herself for life experiences she had no relationship to, giving them meaning beforehand.

    Documentaries as a medium and their impact on storytelling

    50:37 - 57:32

    • The band REM had a unique start in the 80s, not wanting to be one of the biggest bands in the world.
    • REM became a giant band and crossed over into pop culture.
    • The lead singer of REM is not interested in fame and keeping the legacy alive.
    • REM is now underrated compared to their impact in the past.
    • The documentary about Dinosaur Junior shows how some bands stay true to themselves even when successful.
    • It would have been strange for REM to become a completely commercial entity.
    • REM signed a huge contract with Warner, which made them financially secure.
    • Jay Mascos from Dinosaur Jr. believes that music is important but not necessarily fun.
    • The documentaries on WAM, Dinosaur Junior, and the Melvins provide interesting insights into these bands' journeys.

    Different perspectives on being a musician and making documentaries

    57:02 - 1:03:32

    • The Melvins philosophy is to exist as a band for as long as possible without compromising.
    • Three documentaries on Dinosaur Jr., the Melvins, and B.W.A.M. show different ways of thinking about being a musician and what is meaningful about music.
    • Documentaries often have low production quality and sound levels that are inconsistent.
    • A section in the Dinosaur Jr. documentary where their van breaks down in Idaho for 10 days ruins their relationship but is never explained.
    • There seems to be an increasing number of true crime documentaries, even about lesser-known cases.
    • True crime documentaries provide an opportunity to see people who would not typically be featured in other media.
    • 'Hoop Dreams' and 'Paradise Lost' were groundbreaking documentaries that sparked fascination and discussion.
    • 'Hoop Dreams' followed people over several years, raising questions about how much time was invested in making the film.
    • Finding anything remotely interesting can be a starting point for making a great documentary.

    Arnold Schwarzenegger's documentary and the nature of autobiographies

    1:03:09 - 1:09:49

    • When making a documentary, finding anything remotely interesting and spending time with it can result in a good end product
    • The documentary about Arnold Schwarzenegger is broken into three sections: him as an athlete, him as an actor, and him as an American
    • The part about his athletic career is expected but still worth watching
    • The section about his acting career could have benefited from some critical analysis of his films
    • The part about his political career lacked discussion of the things that went wrong during his governorship
    • Documentaries are essentially video autobiographies where the subject controls the narrative
    • Autobiographies tend to be less balanced than biographies, which offer different perspectives
    • A section featuring Arnold Schwarzenegger and Sylvester Stallone discussing their rivalry was one of the best parts of the documentary
    • There is concern that documentaries will become more infomercial-like and lack balance in the future
    • Some prefer reading biographies by writers like Richard Ben Kramer or David Halberstam over autobiographies by individuals themselves
    • Neither person would allow someone full control to make a documentary or write a book about their lives

    Impact of documentaries on legacy and storytelling in sports

    1:09:26 - 1:16:19

    • Michael Jordan's decision to do a documentary was influenced by his legacy starting to slip away and the emergence of the LeBron Kobe generation.
    • The timing of the pandemic coincided with the release of Michael Jordan's documentary, which he couldn't have planned.
    • There was a discussion among trusted individuals before deciding to do a feature on someone like Klay Thompson.
    • The podcast host considered doing a story about himself after getting suspended but is unsure if he wishes it had happened or not.
    • Documentaries are replacing books for many people during vacations and free time.
    • High-end television and documentaries have taken the place of novels in people's lives.
    • Prior to 1990, it was harder to see documentaries as they were not widely available or easy to make.
    • Modern documentaries often consist of a person sitting and talking, resembling older television presentations.

    Different approaches to making documentaries and the power of found footage

    1:15:49 - 1:22:32

    • Many documentaries now rely heavily on talking heads and found footage.
    • The most compelling documentaries are those that use all found footage, like the Wallace and Senna documentaries.
    • It can be challenging to find explicit descriptions of what is happening in certain situations, leading to confusion for viewers.
    • The behind-the-scenes moments before interviews or events are often the most interesting and provide a sense of reality.
    • Documentaries that solely rely on existing footage, like the OJ car chase documentary, can be successful but are difficult to make.
    • Documentaries about broadcasters or actors are easier to create due to the abundance of footage available.
    • Found footage documentaries, like Trauma Zone about the fall of the Soviet Union, can be incredibly powerful when done well.
    • When someone has an awesome idea for a documentary but fails to execute it properly, it can be frustrating for others who may have had similar ideas.
    • There were a total of 599 scripted TV shows made in 2022 and over 877,000 shows available across different streaming platforms throughout history.
    • Younger generations may not appreciate older shows like Cheers due to their age and slower pace compared to modern content.
    • The abundance of content raises questions about its longevity and what will happen to most of it in the future.
    • Showing something old to a young person who doesn't understand or appreciate it is a common experience throughout history.
    • UFO sightings have become more acceptable and mainstream.

    Perception of reality and the fascination with unreal beings

    1:22:10 - 1:29:41

    • UFO sightings have become more acceptable and a woman demanding to be let off a plane because of an imaginary pastor became a week-long story
    • The woman claimed that the person she saw on the plane was not real and used profanity to express her disbelief
    • This incident may be part of a trend where people accuse others of not being real
    • The host shares a personal experience in their new house where workers heard laughter on the third floor and two witchy individuals felt something negative in the attic
    • Despite the strange feelings, they embrace all spirits and try to have a happy time in the house
    • The host wonders if they are becoming more receptive to these stories as they get older
    • They discuss what the woman on the plane might have meant by saying that the person next to her was not real, speculating that he may have done something incredible or had unusual physical characteristics
    • The woman's legitimate fear and lack of concern about whether others believe her adds to the intrigue of the situation

    Perception of reality and the fascination with unreal beings (continued)

    1:29:20 - 1:36:00

    • The speaker discusses a woman on a plane who believed she saw something unreal, but no one believed her.
    • The speaker compares this situation to horror movies where the hero is not initially believed about a malevolent force.
    • The speaker speculates that this story could be the basis for a TV show or urban legend.
    • The speaker mentions watching the movie 'Invasion of the Body Snatchers' and enjoying stories about strange occurrences.
    • The speaker reflects on how there is now more access to information about unusual events through social media and technology.
    • The speaker suggests that if there were no camera phones, this woman's story would not be as interesting or well-known.
    • The speaker expresses curiosity about future accounts of people claiming to see unreal beings and suggests following updates on Twitter or threads accounts.

    Impact of social media and changing dynamics in online platforms

    1:35:31 - 1:42:33

    • 'Cause you don't control who's on your main screen. So it's just you go on there and it's just all these people you never wanted to follow.
    • To me, these people going from Twitter to threads is like someone getting involved with Scientology and then starting to sell out.
    • The desire to replicate the experience of Twitter from 10 years ago is crazy.
    • Signing up for social media apps has become a trend in case they become popular.
    • Having different platforms will further separate people with strong ideas about each other.
    • Twitter used to be the only place where all kinds of people interacted, but now they can be kept apart.
    • Forgetting certain things can be scary but also a new frontier for rediscovering them later on.
    • Intentional memory loss could allow experiencing things again as if for the first time.
    • It would be interesting to hear songs or watch shows without any preconceived notions or memories attached.

    The power of forgetting and the impact on personal experiences

    1:42:04 - 1:48:55

    • Forgetting certain things from our lives can be intriguing and allow us to experience the feeling of rediscovery.
    • Food is a good example of something we could forget and then re-experience the taste.
    • If we were able to forget certain people from our past, it would reveal whether our relationships are based on genuine affinity or just shared history.
    • The idea of spouses meeting without any shared history raises questions about whether they would still like each other.
    • People change significantly over time, making it hard to imagine liking our younger selves.
    • Our brains have limited capacity for memories, and sometimes we forget events that were once important to us.
    • Losing parts of our own life through memory loss feels like losing a part of reality.
    • The fear of Alzheimer's or memory loss can be overwhelming even before experiencing the illness itself.
    • Memories become distorted over time, leading to a memory of a memory rather than an accurate recollection.
    • Important moments in life can sometimes be forgotten, despite being central at the time.

    The nature of memories and their impact on personal narratives

    1:48:27 - 1:54:16

    • Memories are not always accurate representations of events, but rather our memories of memories.
    • When couples break up, they lose shared memories and the ability to piece together past events.
    • Divorce can lead to the merging of stories and the creation of a new version of events.
    • Personal experiences from childhood can be vivid and clear in memory.
    • Watching one's child grow up brings awareness to the fleeting nature of certain experiences.
    • Chuck Klosterman has a book coming out next year that was made into a movie without his involvement.
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