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30 Minutes to President's Club | No-Nonsense Sales

153: Driving deals with show & tell through heaven & hell (Alex Kremer, Director of Sales @ Catalyst Software)

Wed Jul 12 2023
salesdemosprospectingimplementationpricingdiscovery calls


This episode covers various strategies and techniques for making recommendations, conducting demos, building trust, understanding problems, metrics, engaging prospects, asking questions, implementation, pricing, and discovery calls.


Use the tell show tell method in demos

The tell show tell method involves telling what will be shown, showing it, and then telling what was shown. This helps structure the demo and keep the prospect engaged.

Ask open-ended questions to engage stakeholders

Asking open-ended questions during the demo helps validate problems and engage stakeholders in the conversation. It allows for more involvement and understanding of the prospect's needs.

Discuss implementation briefly in sales calls

While implementation should be discussed in sales calls, it is important to keep the discussion brief. More in-depth conversations about implementation can be done by implementation managers or customer success teams.

Strike a balance when discussing implementation

When discussing implementation, it is important to provide enough information without overpromising or avoiding the topic altogether. Mention the available resources, stages of the process, and typical duration.

Educate prospects on the metric they're trying to improve

If prospects are not familiar with the metric they are trying to improve, take the opportunity to educate them. Help them understand the importance of the metric and how your solution can help.


  1. Making Recommendations and Demos
  2. Building Trust and Understanding Problems
  3. Metrics and Demo Call Strategies
  4. Engaging Prospects and Asking Questions
  5. Implementation and Pricing
  6. Pricing and Discovery Calls

Making Recommendations and Demos

00:00 - 07:20

  • Alex Kramer, director of sales at Catalyst Software and founder of alluvians, shares insights on making recommendations for next steps and using the tell show tell method in demos.
  • Alex emphasizes the importance of using imagery when asking questions to prospects.
  • The mini map email tactic by Outreach is recommended for closing pipeline. It involves summarizing critical steps in a summary email and linking to a map at the bottom.
  • Lavender provides three keys to success in a killer recap email: list action items upfront, bullet the top three things solved for the prospect, and ask if anything was missed.
  • When faced with the objection 'Call Me In Six Months,' Orem suggests acknowledging timing and asking for insight into what will be happening in six months.
  • Gong advises turning a problem into a story on a discovery call by telling your own story and then asking when the prospect realized it was a problem.
  • Alex's first actionable takeaway is using the pre-frame technique before every call or meeting, which includes establishing credibility, explaining why you're there, and stating the goal of the conversation.
  • The inchworm concept encourages avoiding closed-ended questions like 'Does that make sense?' Instead, follow up with an open-ended question to ensure understanding.
  • For every 30-minute or 60-minute meeting, allocate five or ten minutes at the end to discuss next steps. Summarize what was discussed and ask a close-ended question about solving key issues before recommending next steps.

Building Trust and Understanding Problems

06:57 - 13:53

  • Outreach can solve key problems discussed in the discovery call.
  • Presenting a hypothesis or point of view builds trust.
  • Lay of the land questions help understand how the business operates.
  • Heaven and hell questions dive deeper into specific areas.
  • Guide the conversation back to relevant problems your solution can solve.
  • Use a five-question framework to highlight the impact of the problem on the company's bottom line.

Metrics and Demo Call Strategies

13:31 - 20:40

  • The key metric to focus on is the number of meetings booked
  • The average rep is booking five meetings per month
  • The goal is to book eight meetings per month, creating a gap of three meetings
  • With 50 reps, there is a monthly gap of 150 meetings
  • Identify what is holding reps back from booking more meetings
  • Understand how the problem impacts other parts of the business
  • When dealing with clients who struggle to measure brand awareness, coach and support them in identifying relevant metrics
  • During the demo call, start with a pre-frame to establish credibility and align on challenges
  • Validate that the problems being addressed are relevant to decision-makers
  • Show credibility by highlighting company investments and recognition
  • Present a slide explaining what the product does and how it addresses client needs

Engaging Prospects and Asking Questions

20:12 - 27:27

  • The demo follows a tell show tell model, where the presenter tells what they are going to show, shows it, and then tells what they just showed.
  • Engaging prospects in the demo involves putting them in the driver's seat and asking them how they would use the platform.
  • Asking open-ended questions helps validate problems and engage stakeholders.
  • There is a psychological aspect to using open-ended versus closed-ended questions.

Implementation and Pricing

26:59 - 33:19

  • Open-ended questions allow for more engagement and involvement in the discussion.
  • Closed-ended questions are used to guide prospects towards a specific outcome.
  • Implementation should be discussed in sales calls, but briefly. More in-depth discussions can be done by implementation managers or customer success teams.
  • When discussing implementation, mention the resources available, the stages of the process, and the typical duration.
  • It's important to strike a balance between providing enough information about implementation without overpromising or avoiding the topic altogether.
  • Sales reps should focus on more than just hitting quota; they should consider the impact they have on clients, teammates, and leadership.

Pricing and Discovery Calls

32:50 - 35:24

  • When asked about pricing early on, share the pricing range and explain what information is needed for a specific price
  • Never stop prospecting the rest of the account until you're sure you have someone who will shop you around
  • Start with lay of the land questions, then ask heaven and hell questions, and finally bucket them in a problem with typical language
  • Educate prospects on the metric they're trying to improve if they don't know it
  • Use the tell, show, tell method to present information and relate it back to what was learned in discovery
  • Talk about implementation at the level of people involved, stages, and timing
  • Access recordings of real discovery calls for coaching on the 30 minutes to President's Club website