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    Making Sense with Sam Harris

    #327 — Transformative Experiences

    Fri Jul 21 2023
    Transformative ExperiencesDecision-MakingValuesPersonal IdentityRegretEmpathyPhilanthropyFuture Well-beingPainful EventsEthics

    Description

    The episode explores transformative experiences and their impact on decision-making, values, and personal identity. L.A. Paul, a professor of philosophy and cognitive science, discusses the nature of transformative experiences and how they change the self. Topics include regret, changing belief systems, conspiracy thinking, empathy, doing good in the world, our relationship to our future selves, changing values, possibility, ethics of punishment, moral luck, consequentialism.

    Insights

    Transformative experiences challenge rational decision-making

    Transformative experiences involve changes that can't be fully grasped in advance, making rational decision theory less applicable.

    Regret may not be a reliable indicator of making the right decision

    Different selves before and after a transformative experience can lead to different perspectives on regret.

    Empathy can lead to cognitive bias

    Empathy can cause us to lose ourselves in someone else's perspective and make decisions based on emotions rather than rational analysis.

    Direct contact with those affected by a cause can enhance philanthropic actions

    Having personal interactions with people impacted by a cause can make the impact of philanthropic actions more salient.

    Our perception of future well-being is often discounted

    We tend to prioritize short-term pleasures and pains over our future well-being when making decisions.

    Transformative experiences can change our perception of painful events

    Transformative experiences can lead to positive outcomes and reorientation of priorities, altering our perception of past painful events.

    Pricing in the value of transformative experiences is complex

    Considering different selves with different values, such as in cases of disability, complicates the evaluation of the value of transformative experiences.

    There is no objective fact about which set of values is better

    Each self can have its own set of values, and respecting individual values is important.

    Deliberately changing values raises ethical questions

    The possibility of altering compassion or sociopathy through direct brain manipulation raises ethical concerns.

    Transformative experiences challenge our basis for judging goodness

    Transformative experiences can fundamentally change how we perceive and evaluate what is good.

    Chapters

    1. Introduction
    2. Understanding Transformative Experiences
    3. Changing Values and Beliefs
    4. The Role of Experience and Empathy
    5. The Impact on Decision-Making and Future Selves
    6. Temporal Perspectives and Value of Experiences
    7. The Value of Transformative Experiences
    8. Controversial Considerations
    Summary
    Transcript

    Introduction

    00:07 - 07:32

    • L.A. Paul is a professor of philosophy and cognitive science at Yale University.
    • Her research focuses on metaphysics, decision theory, and the philosophy of mind.
    • Her book 'Transformative Experience' explores the nature of transformative experiences and how they change the self.

    Understanding Transformative Experiences

    07:08 - 13:54

    • Transformative experiences involve facing an experience that you can't fully know beforehand and that fundamentally changes you by creating a new self.
    • Becoming a parent is an example of a transformative experience where attachment to the child changes your identity and understanding of yourself.
    • Transformative experiences challenge rational decision-making because the decider is different from the person who judges the consequences.
    • Rational decision theory involves mapping out options and values to maximize happiness or life satisfaction, but transformative experiences involve changes that can't be fully grasped in advance.
    • Gathering evidence from others who have gone through the experience may not be relevant if they have changed as a result.
    • Regret or its absence may not be a reliable indicator of making the right decision for oneself, as there are different selves before and after the experience.
    • Transformative experiences involve circularity and an inability to access the self that would have been without the experience.

    Changing Values and Beliefs

    13:34 - 20:52

    • There may be a fundamental change in what one values when deciding to have children
    • Not wanting to admit regret about life decisions can be a protective mechanism
    • Experiencing the full tour of desire, enjoyment, and regret can lead to a strange picture of self and personal identity
    • Differentiating between cases where higher order values are consistent or fluctuating
    • Religious experience can involve transformation and reversion in beliefs
    • Deciding not to entertain certain ideas or expose oneself to certain images can be an expression of cognitive bias or mental hygiene
    • Protecting oneself from negative effects by avoiding certain information or experiences
    • The challenge arises when there is no higher order evidence to determine whether an experience will be positive or negative
    • Questions about religious belief arise due to the lack of independent evidence for or against it
    • Opening one's mind to new experiences while fearing that they could corrupt

    The Role of Experience and Empathy

    20:37 - 28:03

    • It can be rational to set aside evidence and try to control options when we don't know enough about them.
    • Psychedelics, religious belief, and certain kinds of love can transform the way we regard the nature of reality.
    • Conspiracy thinking has social contagion and quasi-religious aspects that make it difficult for people to step out of it.
    • Empathy can lead to cognitive bias and losing oneself in someone else's perspective.
    • Rational analysis may not align with causes that emotionally compel us, but we can allocate resources accordingly.
    • The rational calculus should include the value of experience.

    The Impact on Decision-Making and Future Selves

    27:48 - 35:09

    • It's important to not remove the human element from rational decision-making.
    • There is an enormous amount of pain and suffering in both small and large scale situations.
    • Our psychological and moral makeup can lead to a mismatch in how we perceive and respond to different types of suffering.
    • Concrete exchanges with other human beings have a more immediate impact on our emotions than abstract acts of philanthropy.
    • The experiential sense of doing good is difficult to detect when there is a long causal chain between actions and outcomes.
    • Having direct contact with people affected by a cause can make the impact of philanthropic actions more salient.
    • Understanding the causal chains between ourselves, past selves, future selves, and possible selves can help navigate our relationships with others.
    • Actions taken now can have remote effects on future versions of ourselves.

    Temporal Perspectives and Value of Experiences

    34:41 - 41:27

    • We often throw our future selves under the bus by agreeing to do unpleasant things in the distant future rather than the near future.
    • We rely on our experiences and projections when making decisions, but we shouldn't neglect rational thinking.
    • We tend to discount the importance of our future well-being and prioritize short-term pleasures and pains.
    • Thinking about ourselves in the near future feels different from thinking about ourselves in the distant future.
    • There is a relationship between proximity and understanding someone's pain or situation.
    • Derek Parfett's thought experiment highlights how we care more about the future than the past, which seems arbitrary.
    • The experiment involves choosing between a harrowing surgery with memory erasure or a normal but still unpleasant surgery in the future.
    • People value happiness or suffering in the future more than what has already happened, which is strange according to Parfett.
    • There is an objective perspective that focuses on maximizing the value of a life by considering all temporal stages.

    The Value of Transformative Experiences

    40:57 - 47:59

    • There are two perspectives on the value of a life: an objective perspective that focuses on maximizing the area under the curve of temporal stages, and a subjective perspective that values experiences based on their arrangement in time.
    • The subjective perspective is influenced by human psychology, where we are immersed in the present and anticipate the future while perceiving the past as fixed and over.
    • Transformative experiences can change our perception of painful events, leading to positive outcomes and reorientation of priorities.
    • Knowing that most bad experiences can result in personal growth should change how we view future negative experiences.
    • However, pricing in the value of transformative experiences is more complicated when considering cases like disability, where different selves may have different values.
    • There is no objective fact about which set of values is better; each self can have its own set of values and should be respected.
    • The possibility of deliberately changing one's values through direct brain manipulation raises ethical questions about altering compassion or sociopathy for productivity.

    Controversial Considerations

    47:38 - 49:19

    • Implanting an optimal CEO sociopathy would make decisions more efficiently and with less concern for consequences.
    • Transformative experiences can change the very basis upon which we judge goodness.
    • This territory is fascinating but also murky.
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