Modern Wisdom

#658 - George TheTinMen - Why Do The Left Not Care About Men’s Problems?

Mon Jul 24 2023

Men's IssuesPatriarchyOnline BacklashFamily Court DiscriminationHarmful Gender StereotypesMedia RepresentationSocietal IssuesPositive MasculinityOpen Discussions

Description

This episode explores the conversation around men and boys, highlighting the dominance of the right in this discourse while the left seems to have abandoned the male sex. The power of patriarchy, the left's lack of engagement with men's issues, and the online backlash faced by advocates for male issues are discussed. The episode also delves into topics such as divorce, the gender pay gap, family court discrimination, harmful gender stereotypes perpetuated by mothers, and the erasure of positive male role models. It concludes with a call for open discussions and understanding in the world of boys and men advocacy.

Insights

Men's issues dominated by the right

The conversation around men and boys has been dominated by the right, while the left seems to have abandoned the male sex.

Power of patriarchy

The power of patriarchy is explored in relation to men's flourishing.

Online backlash against male advocates

George faces online backlash and attempts at cancellation due to his advocacy for male issues.

Discrimination in family court

Men are discriminated against in family and criminal courts, receiving longer sentences compared to women for the same crimes.

Harmful gender stereotypes perpetuated by mothers

Mothers often perpetuate harmful gender stereotypes onto their children, according to a study by Crystal Tomlinson.

Erasure of positive male role models

The erasure of positive male role models and highlighting only negative aspects creates a warped perspective of masculinity that hurts everyone.

Gender bias in media representation

News reports often highlight women when they are impacted by social issues, but erase men when they are impacted.

Complexity of societal issues

Complex societal issues cannot be explained with simple catchphrases and hashtags.

Positive approach to masculinity

A third wave manosphere is proposed that focuses on integrating positive elements of masculinity without being adversarial towards women.

Importance of open discussions

The speaker wants to have discussions that progress into conversations and eventually create a documentary.

Chapters

Introduction
Discussion on Men's Issues
Challenges in Advocating for Men
Issues in Family Court and Intersectionality
Structural Disadvantages Faced by Men
Perception of Men in Society
Discrimination Against Men in Society
Gender Stereotypes and Parenting
Gender Bias and Media Representation
Societal Challenges and Perspectives
Gender Differences and Parental Leave
Retirement and Perspectives on Masculinity
Understanding Suicide and Psychological Approaches
Complexity of Societal Issues and Positive Masculinity
Insights and Perspectives
Conclusion and Call for Discussion

Summary

Transcript

Introduction

00:00 - 07:18

George from The Tin Men is a filmmaker, pro men's advocate, and content creator.
The conversation around men and boys has been dominated by the right, while the left seems to have abandoned the male sex.
An openly left-leaning man creating a huge Instagram account talking exclusively about male issues challenges the status quo.
The power of patriarchy is explored in relation to men's flourishing.
The left's lack of engagement with men and boys is discussed.
George faces online backlash and attempts at cancellation due to his advocacy for male issues.
The conversation about struggling males often misses important aspects.
Divorce impacts the development of young men.
Misunderstandings about the gender pay gap are highlighted.
Men's desires from women in their lives are examined.

Discussion on Men's Issues

07:00 - 13:37

The podcast host started his channel as a way to engage in discussions about men's issues and reference information about suicide, domestic violence, violent crime, homelessness, and drug addiction.
The host believes that discussing men's issues is often met with resistance and the need to constantly acknowledge women's issues as well.
The progressive left spaces tend to blame men and boys for their own problems instead of engaging in good faith discussions.
The host feels that concepts like toxic masculinity and patriarchy place the blame back on men's shoulders and divide people.
Many of the issues the host talks about are left-wing issues, such as homelessness and war deaths, which disproportionately affect men.
The host believes that police brutality is both a racial issue and a men's issue, as a majority of those killed by police are black men.
Men are significantly more likely to be killed by police compared to women, creating cognitive dissonance when discussing racial disparities in police killings.
The left is accused of actively encouraging fear-mongering around men, contributing to dehumanization and stereotypes.

Challenges in Advocating for Men

13:15 - 20:14

Left progressive spaces contribute to the problem of police brutality by fear-mongering around men, which disproportionately affects black men.
Left-leaning friends may question your credentials and dismiss your opinions.
Discussions about male suicide and sexual violence against men can lead to strained relationships.
Male suicide is not solely a mental health issue but also a societal problem influenced by factors like joblessness, child custody battles, and domestic violence against men.
Advocates against male suicide should address these issues as well.
Some advocates focus on surface-level solutions like encouraging men to talk, while neglecting deeper societal issues.
Controversial topics like male rape and mistreatment in family court are often avoided or dismissed by mainstream discourse.
Addressing men's problems in domains dominated by women can be met with resistance from both sides of the political spectrum.

Issues in Family Court and Intersectionality

19:58 - 26:49

Family court is a secret court with little oversight, making it difficult to know what goes on in child custody cases.
Men are discriminated against in family and criminal courts, receiving longer sentences compared to women for the same crimes.
Intersectionality is an important lens to consider when discussing discrimination against minority men.
The historical criminalization of gay men is often overlooked, with focus placed on the broader term 'gay people'.
Not using an intersectional lens can hide the problems faced by boys and men.
Society sees men as inherently guilty, which may explain why women's homosexuality is often seen as innocent experimentation while men are deemed guilty for being gay.

Structural Disadvantages Faced by Men

26:29 - 32:47

Men are often told to 'do better' without considering societal factors that contribute to their problems.
Society invests in solving women's problems but fails to acknowledge and address the structural disadvantages faced by men.
Male suicide is not solely a mental health issue, but a result of external stresses such as relationship breakdown, work culture, employment, financial worries, social isolation, and lack of empathy towards men.
Talking alone does not solve the complex issues contributing to male suicide; listening, asking, and acting are also necessary.
The term 'toxic masculinity' is viewed as insulting by around 85% of men surveyed in the UK.
Boys are being indoctrinated with negative views about masculinity from a young age.

Perception of Men in Society

32:21 - 39:06

Percentage of boys introduced to the concept of men being bad for society is high
Instagram deleted a slide discussing boys and masculinity
Discussion on releasing a podcast with Andrew Tate, but decided against it due to his controversial claims
People get angry when discussing the disadvantages faced by boys and men
Left-leaning individuals may resist changing their beliefs due to identity crisis
Changing someone's mind requires dissociation from their community or changing the entire community's mindset
Understanding the experiences that lead to hatred towards men and violent behavior
Challenging people to consider the journey that led someone to become violent or hateful
Beliefs about men and women are influenced by political popularity rather than personal experience or information
Advocating for treating issues based on their merits rather than gender
Highlighting the lack of support for male victims of domestic violence and homelessness

Discrimination Against Men in Society

38:44 - 45:42

Men make up one in three victims and are systematically shut out of refuges.
The right has dominated the conversation with men because the left hasn't provided positive role models for them.
Toxic masculinity is a term that puts the problem inside of men's heads instead of addressing it as a societal issue.
Mothers often perpetuate harmful gender stereotypes onto their children, according to a study by Crystal Tomlinson.

Gender Stereotypes and Parenting

45:14 - 52:05

Mothers perpetuate harmful gender stereotypes more than fathers, according to a study by Crystal Tomlinson.
Mothers were more disapproving of boys breaking gender stereotypes, while fathers didn't seem to have a preference.
The sexy son hypothesis suggests that women try to find attractive fathers for their sons.
Women may have a biological predisposition to make their sons attractive to future partners.
People often live in denial and are reluctant to listen or discuss certain topics.
Personal anecdotes are powerful in changing minds compared to statistics or charts.
There is an empathy gap and lack of care towards men's issues.
Men are raised with gamma bias, highlighting male privilege and minimizing gender differences.

Gender Bias and Media Representation

51:43 - 58:34

Gender bias is prevalent in how we highlight and minimize gender depending on the context.
News reports often highlight women when they are impacted by social issues, but erase men when they are impacted.
For example, in London's knife crime statistics, all of the teenagers killed were boys, yet they were reported as 'teenagers' instead of 'boys'.
Similarly, when the Metropolitan Police strip searched children as young as eight, the headlines focused on 'children' or 'black children', but not on the fact that 95% of those children were boys.
In situations of perpetration, gender is highlighted. For instance, terrorists are always identified as men, but the heroism and sacrifice of firefighters who died during 9/11 were not highlighted as being all men.
The erasure of positive male role models and highlighting only negative aspects creates a warped perspective of masculinity that hurts everyone.
The failure to talk about boys and men in a positive way leads to individuals like Andrew Tate becoming poor role models.
Political leanings are influenced by genetics, and if one side abandons the conversation about gender issues, they give ground to a side they may disagree with.
People are more politically biased than racially biased.

Societal Challenges and Perspectives

58:11 - 1:04:59

They fear their child marrying a man, marrying like an African lady or something.
There is much more bias against the other political party than there is against pretty much anything else.
If you refuse to have this conversation with boys and men, what you're doing is condemning all of the boys and men that are from the left to not be able to hear any positive role models.
The right dominates masculinity because people from one side aren't necessarily always prepared to hear the ideas from the other.
50% of all men may be unable to hear what another side is talking about because they don't have anyone from their own political party that wants to engage.
The left doesn't seem interested in diversity of ideas, points of view, and perspective.
Women have outvoted men in America every year for about 40 years.
Women can choose who goes into office because they outnumber men every single election.
There are numerous commissions and departments set up for women and girls but not for men and boys.
More men die at work in America every year than all American military deaths in the entire Iraq war for 20 years combined.
There is no office for men's health or bureau for men's issues despite significant male health issues.
The gender pay gap is better seen as a child penalty paid by mothers due to longer maternity leave and returning part-time or not at all after having children.
The solution to closing the pay gap may involve equal paid parental leave for fathers so that mothers can return to work sooner and continue their career journey.

Gender Differences and Parental Leave

1:04:33 - 1:11:20

Men and women have different interests and behaviors, shaped by biology and environment.
A study on Uber drivers found that the pay gap was due to differences in behavior, such as driving at different times, sticking with the platform longer, and driving faster.
The pay gap is 99 cents to the dollar when factors like job, experience, level, and hours worked are the same.
Asian men are paid even more than white men and Asian women.
The pay gap is influenced by motherhood; becoming a mother affects women's earning potential.
Increasing parental leave for both mothers and fathers may lead to more egalitarian outcomes.
Many mothers enjoy being mothers and would choose to spend more time with their children if given the choice.
Both parents often desire part-time parenting and part-time work.
Mothers who work full-time face challenges in balancing work and parenting responsibilities.

Retirement and Perspectives on Masculinity

1:10:56 - 1:18:11

The sacrifices made by both parents, the father and mother, have different outcomes in retirement.
Mothers often enjoy retirement more due to their network of friends and family connections.
The value and respect given to women should be equal whether they choose to be a CEO or a full-time mother.
Society struggles to accept when women make choices that are seen as abusive or violent.
Men want women to understand their experiences in relationships, sexuality, mindset, mental health, career goals, and lifestyle goals.
Lockdown during the coronavirus pandemic provided an insight into how it feels to be a man where people avoid and fear you.
Men receive fewer compliments compared to women who often face unwanted attention.
Instead of labeling men as toxic or patriarchal, it is important to listen and understand their experiences without putting them into new boxes.
'Fragile masculinity' refers to the different ways society reacts when products are marketed towards women versus men.
Nora Vincent was a journalist who lived as a man for 18 months but did not enjoy the experience. She later ended her life due to gender dysphoria.

Understanding Suicide and Psychological Approaches

1:17:47 - 1:24:56

The death of a transgender person by suicide is being politicized, but the reason for her decision was gender dysphoria.
Understanding women's issues and experiences requires listening in good faith.
Male suicide rates cannot be solely attributed to toxic masculinity; many men who died by suicide had sought help.
The psychological industry, dominated by women, may have approaches more beneficial to women than men.
Using terms like 'toxic masculinity' causes men to disengage from conversations.
Patriarchy theory oversimplifies complex issues like domestic violence and the pay gap.
Violent fantasies in men can be a coping mechanism developed due to childhood bullying.

Complexity of Societal Issues and Positive Masculinity

1:24:27 - 1:31:18

Complex societal issues cannot be explained with simple catchphrases and hashtags.
Patriarchy theory is used to understand various issues, including domestic violence and the pay gap.
There are more effective tools available to understand these issues, such as economic, psychological, and anthropological approaches.
The use of terms like patriarchy, toxic masculinity, and atmosphere can be dramatic and vague.
A third wave manosphere is proposed that focuses on integrating positive elements of masculinity without being adversarial towards women.
Content creators like Hamza, David Busse, Richard Reeves, and John Barry promote a positive approach to masculinity.
Avoid making broad generalizations about men or women; focus on individual experiences.
Masculinity should be seen as immutable and not inherently good or bad.
Distribution curves overlap when discussing gender differences on average.

Insights and Perspectives

1:30:49 - 1:37:27

Distribution's overlap and we're talking on average.
Men and women are overlap. The distributions are overlap and we're talking in general terms about these different groups.
Engaging in discussions requires listening, nuance, and putting aside personal differences.
Hans Rosling's book 'Factfulness' discusses how our worldview is overly dramatic due to focusing on the worst things.
Global trends show that things are getting better and safer. We live in the safest time in human history.
The Gut Mind Test revealed that people have a systemically negative view of the world.
Self-reinforcing antagonism leads to a failure of cross-sex mind reading.
'Recursive red pill learning' refers to the propagation of extreme stories on the internet, leading to distorted perceptions of reality.
Most people live normal lives, but extreme stories dominate online platforms.
Going outside for a break from the internet can help reduce stress and provide a more accurate perspective of real life.

Conclusion and Call for Discussion

1:37:05 - 1:38:48

The speaker is interested in learning about how to navigate treacherous issues in the world of boys and men advocacy.
Boys and men advocacy is often compared to alt-right white supremacy and being a Nazi.
The speaker wants to have discussions that progress into conversations and eventually create a documentary.
They are looking for effective language and creative strategies that resonate with an audience.
On Instagram, there are lots of comments and debates happening on the speaker's posts.
The speaker appreciates comments, even if they disagree, and hopes for rich discussions.
Followers are encouraged to engage with the content whether they like it or not.