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    Modern Wisdom

    Dr Jonathan Anomaly - The Wild Ethics Of Human Genetic Enhancement

    Mon Mar 06 2023
    Genetic SelectionEugenicsEthicsEmbryo SelectionGenetic EnhancementSocial InequalityMate SelectionDeclining Birth Rate

    Description

    This episode explores the ethics and implications of genetic selection and eugenics. It delves into the complex debates surrounding embryo selection, genetic interventions, and the association of eugenics with Nazi Germany. The responsible use of genetic technology and its potential for enhancing traits are discussed. The impact of social safety nets on genetic health and the role of disability rights in genetic interventions are examined. The future of genetic selection, including the influence of masculine virtues and changing dynamics of mate selection, is explored. The potential consequences of genetic selection on equality and society are considered, along with the declining birth rate and its implications. The episode concludes with insights on the future of genetic selection and its societal impact.

    Insights

    Genetic technology can be used to subtly enhance traits like intelligence, conscientiousness, and social skills.

    The potential for genetic enhancement raises ethical questions and considerations about responsible use.

    The association of eugenics with Nazi Germany has led to concerns and debates about the responsible use of genetic technology.

    Understanding the historical context and implications of eugenics is crucial in shaping policy and public opinion.

    The availability of genetic technology may lead to societal divisions between the wealthy and the poor.

    Efforts should be made to ensure equitable access to genetic enhancement technologies to prevent exacerbating inequalities.

    The declining birth rate poses challenges for civilization and requires attention from a long-term perspective.

    Addressing pronatalism concerns and technological distractions may contribute to increasing birth rates.

    Cognitive dissonance may arise as beliefs about heritability are challenged by advancements in genetic technology.

    Public opinion on genetic selection may undergo significant changes as more information becomes available.

    Chapters

    1. The Ethics of Genetic Selection and Eugenics
    2. The Complexities of Genetics and Embryo Selection
    3. The Responsible Use of Genetic Technology
    4. The Potential of Genetic Enhancement
    5. The Impact of Social Safety Nets on Genetic Health
    6. The Role of Disability Rights and Genetic Interventions
    7. The Future of Genetic Selection and Enhancement
    8. The Influence of Masculine Virtues on Society
    9. The Changing Dynamics of Mate Selection
    10. The Role of Traits in Mate Selection
    11. The Influence of Physical Traits in Mate Selection
    12. The Future of Genetic Selection and Its Implications
    13. The Potential of Genetic Selection and Accessible Technology
    14. The Impact of Technology on Equality and Society
    15. The Dilemma of Equality and Genetic Selection
    16. The Future of Genetic Selection and Societal Change
    17. The Declining Birth Rate and Its Consequences
    18. Insights on Genetic Selection and Its Implications
    Summary
    Transcript

    The Ethics of Genetic Selection and Eugenics

    00:00 - 07:46

    • Embryo selection technology allows for choosing traits like height, intelligence, personality types, and more.
    • Genetic interventions raise questions about social inequality and moral differences from environmental interventions.
    • Eugenics is the attempt to influence traits in offspring based on knowledge of heredity.
    • Concerns about eugenics often stem from its association with Nazi Germany's involuntary sterilization practices.
    • There is also a sinister aspect where certain thoughts are deemed unacceptable by the woke left.

    The Complexities of Genetics and Embryo Selection

    07:16 - 14:35

    • The woke left tries to make it almost impossible to have thoughts about genetic explanations and heredity, labeling them as eugenics.
    • Early eugenicists were progressives who believed science could help advance our species, but now the woke left denies any disparities are due to heredity.
    • Refraining from genetic editing can also be seen as a form of genetic enhancement or eugenics.
    • The focus should be on policy implications and responsible use of technology rather than getting caught up in definitions or labels like eugenicist.

    The Responsible Use of Genetic Technology

    14:09 - 21:34

    • Scientists and parents have a responsibility to use genetic technology for the benefit of their kids and humankind, rather than misuse it like in Nazi Germany.
    • Whether using this technology is immoral as a parent depends on factors like affordability and understanding of the technology.
    • Understanding the technology and being able to afford it may increase one's obligation to use it responsibly.
    • Choosing the right mate is still considered one of the best things parents can do for their children, as IQ is heritable by about 80% by adulthood.

    The Potential of Genetic Enhancement

    21:10 - 28:38

    • Genetic technology can be used to subtly enhance traits like intelligence, conscientiousness, and social skills.
    • The moral difference between selecting from existing genetic material and editing genes lies in empirical realities and potential downstream mutations.
    • Positive pleiotropy suggests that selecting against disease-causing variants can also reduce the risk of other diseases due to shared genes.
    • Modern societies accumulate more deleterious mutations due to medical advancements and welfare programs that ensure survival and reproduction of individuals with health risks.

    The Impact of Social Safety Nets on Genetic Health

    28:09 - 35:02

    • The social safety net has lowered the minimum level of health that someone can survive at, resulting in a weakening of the immune system and accumulation of deleterious mutations.
    • Wealthier societies are more likely to believe things that are at odds with reality itself.
    • Advanced healthcare and social support have led to a degree of security and comfort, but also hyper-sensitization when faced with adversity.
    • There is concern about the slippery slope towards coercive eugenics and the potential discrimination against certain communities or disabilities.
    • It is possible to protect individuals with disabilities while still acknowledging that certain conditions should be avoided.

    The Role of Disability Rights and Genetic Interventions

    34:41 - 41:55

    • Scholars who argue for disability rights may still want a cure for their own disabilities.
    • Many objections to genetic interventions are just virtue signaling.
    • Genetic interventions and environmental interventions can have similar consequences for the child's well-being.
    • Genetic alterations can potentially be undone in future generations.
    • Resistance to new technologies is often rooted in naturalistic fallacy or skepticism.
    • Current genetic enhancement capabilities include minimizing the likelihood of mental and physical diseases, selecting for height and cognitive ability.

    The Future of Genetic Selection and Enhancement

    41:25 - 48:52

    • Physical traits like height and cognitive ability can be selected for.
    • China is likely to lead in genetic selection due to subsidized IVF and embryo sequencing.
    • Embryos can be tested for cognitive ability, with a potential IQ gain of around nine points between the lowest and highest scoring embryos.
    • In vitro gametogenesis (IVG) allows for the creation of egg cells from adult cells, enabling women past menopause to have children.
    • IVG could potentially provide hundreds or thousands of embryos to select from, leading to increased genetic variation.
    • The future may involve a combination of IVF using polygenic risk scores, IVG, and CRISPR gene editing to produce people who live longer, are smarter, healthier, and happier.
    • There are masculine virtues that are important for civilization building and preserving.

    The Influence of Masculine Virtues on Society

    48:35 - 55:29

    • Masculine virtues are important for civilization building and preserving.
    • Women have higher levels of affective empathy and engage in psychological warfare.
    • War incentivizes coordination and cooperation among existing groups.
    • Men tend to have more parochial altruism, which allows bonding within a tribe.
    • Self-domestication through war made us more cooperative and docile.
    • Killing violent members of a tribe led to a more peaceful and altruistic society.
    • Sanitizing toxic male behavior sterilized all male behavior in a time of peace.
    • Removing sedatives like porn, video games, and social media may increase aggression.
    • Useless men may be more optimal than dangerous men in the current socio-political landscape.
    • Relaxed sexual selection by women has reduced the number of men leaving surviving offspring compared to dominant men.

    The Changing Dynamics of Mate Selection

    55:03 - 1:01:42

    • Women's relaxed sexual selection due to government social welfare programs has led to a shift in the traits they value in men.
    • Traditionally, women selected men based on moral virtues, intelligence, and physical capability to defend and provide for their family.
    • With government support, women no longer have incentives to select for these traits as the government takes care of them and their children.
    • People's actions reveal their preferences more accurately than what they say. Observing how people select mates at sperm or egg banks shows that intelligence is highly valued.
    • Women choose traits like educational attainment, athletic ability, health, and kindness when selecting sperm donors.
    • Extroversion is not a determining factor when choosing a sperm donor; introverts are equally likely to be chosen as extroverts.
    • People are likely to choose partners who are reasonably nice but also retaliatory so that they won't be taken advantage of in an unkind world.
    • Theoretical limits on increasing intelligence are unknown, but there may be small risks associated with extremely high IQs such as a correlation with Asperger's syndrome.

    The Role of Traits in Mate Selection

    1:01:21 - 1:08:03

    • There is no evidence of downsides to a high IQ.
    • There is a small correlation between extremely high IQ and Asperger's, but it's not well studied.
    • High IQ is associated with earning a PhD, earning more than $200,000 a year, and success in the mating market for men.
    • Lower IQ people tend to get divorced more.
    • Higher IQ women may have difficulty finding a relationship with a man looking for a more agreeable woman.
    • There may be a risk of there being no eligible bachelors in the dating pool for highly intelligent and successful women.
    • Conscientiousness is generally beneficial, but extreme conscientiousness can lead to psychopathologies like obsessive-compulsive disorder.
    • Openness tends to correlate with political liberalism, but it also makes individuals more susceptible to exploitation by less open and more tribal people.
    • Trade-offs exist for all personality traits, including openness and conscientiousness.
    • It is difficult to predict what traits people will select for in relationships.

    The Influence of Physical Traits in Mate Selection

    1:07:36 - 1:14:28

    • Attractiveness is a fascinating topic in mate selection
    • Symmetry in the face is a universally desired trait
    • Height is more important for men than women in mate selection
    • Selecting for aesthetic traits like facial symmetry inadvertently selects for health
    • Humor in men is attractive because it indicates intelligence and social intelligence
    • Genetic markers play a role in what we find attractive
    • We are already genetically selecting our partners and potential children
    • The future of genetic selection may involve digital biology

    The Future of Genetic Selection and Its Implications

    1:14:02 - 1:21:04

    • Moving faster through cultural evolution and scientific advancement in the age of digital biology
    • Jokes as a form of social intelligence and cognitive empathy
    • Women choosing sperm donors based on intelligence up to a certain percentile
    • Driving the cost of things down to zero can have strange consequences
    • Pathological altruism and the dangers of extreme in-group preference
    • Competition, in-group preference, and team sports as drivers of greatness in life
    • Predictions are difficult but societal concerns about enhancement/selection technology

    The Potential of Genetic Selection and Accessible Technology

    1:20:37 - 1:27:40

    • Polygenic risk scores for embryo selection are already here and getting more powerful every year.
    • In vitro gametogenesis and sperm/egg donation can increase genetic diversity for embryo selection.
    • Gene editing may not happen on a mass scale for 50 years or more due to concerns about downstream mutations.
    • Manipulating individual genes, such as those causing specific traits, may be possible sooner than gene editing for polygenic traits.
    • Embryo selection and mate selection are currently the main methods of genetic manipulation.
    • Increased genetic inequality has already occurred due to assortative mating based on education and other traits.
    • Genetic technologies like embryo selection will initially be expensive but will become more accessible over time, reducing genetic inequalities.
    • The rich driving down prices and improving quality of genetic technologies will benefit the so-called 'genetic poor'.
    • Technological innovation often starts as a luxury for the rich but eventually becomes accessible to everyone.

    The Impact of Technology on Equality and Society

    1:27:22 - 1:34:29

    • New technology starts as toys for the rich and becomes accessible to everyone over time.
    • Poor people benefit from advancements in technology, such as cheap flights and affordable radios.
    • Climate reparations should be directed towards countries that invented important technologies.
    • The development of technology in industrialized societies leads to a redistribution of resources for everyone's benefit.
    • Genetic enhancement may lead to societal divisions between the wealthy and the poor.
    • Banning genetic enhancement would exacerbate inequalities and only benefit the rich.
    • Subsidizing access to genetic enhancement could help close genetic gaps between individuals.
    • Equality is not everything, and differences in intelligence or athleticism should not be seen as evil.
    • The concept of equality can be seen as a disease of the West influenced by Christianity.

    The Dilemma of Equality and Genetic Selection

    1:34:09 - 1:41:03

    • In the story 'Harrison Bergeron' by Kurt Vonnegut, a world of equality is achieved through handicaps
    • There is a virtue in equalizing access to technologies, but an obsession with equality can lead to negative consequences
    • Forcing everyone to be equal would require massive government coercion and could lead to eugenics-like practices
    • Instead, we should enable the poor to use technology while accepting that inequality will exist
    • If inequalities become too large, humanity may diverge into different species like chimpanzees and bonobos
    • Divergence may not prevent reproduction between different human groups, similar to how different dog breeds can still mate
    • However, if some groups genetically enhance their children to the point of being unable to reproduce with other humans, runaway selection and tribalism could occur
    • The book 'The Genetic Lottery' explores the implications of genetic differences in a world without environmental inequalities
    • Some people who deny or downplay heritability may face cognitive dissonance when genetic enhancement becomes widespread

    The Future of Genetic Selection and Societal Change

    1:40:34 - 1:47:16

    • There may be a sea change of public opinion on the use of certain technologies as more cognitive dissonance is created.
    • Beliefs about heritability rooted in political ideology can afford to be wrong publicly but not privately.
    • Pressure to change these beliefs may come from elites who publicly change their stance, leading to a cascade effect.
    • The availability of IVG technology may change the moral impetus for people to have children, allowing more control over quality and quantity.
    • Demographic trends in the West and East Asia are concerning, with low fertility rates leading to population decline.
    • Massive cultural change is needed to address this crisis, moving away from pursuing pleasure and money towards living a meaningful life.
    • Liberalism may be evolutionarily unstable due to the fertility problem, potentially being replaced by nationalism or religiosity in the long run.
    • Religious people or nationalists who embrace high birth rates and technology may succeed in the future.
    • "Can Liberalism Last?" is a paper that explores the demographic demise and future of liberalism.

    The Declining Birth Rate and Its Consequences

    1:47:00 - 1:53:41

    • Birth Gap with Stephen Shaw is a recommended documentary about birth rate decline worldwide.
    • The documentary is comprehensive, accessible, and easy to understand.
    • It consists of three parts, with the first part available for free on YouTube.
    • The guest on the show discussed the lack of attention given to birth rate decline and demographic collapse in books like 'Super Intelligence' and 'The Precipice'.
    • Birth rate decline may not lead to permanent collapse but can cause significant setbacks for civilization.
    • There is a need to address this issue, especially from a long-term perspective.
    • The combination of pronatalism concerns and technological distractions may contribute to declining birth rates in the West.
    • Religious people and those who genuinely desire children are more likely to reproduce in declining populations.
    • In the future, genetic technology may allow parents to program their children's desire for fertility.
    • Ethical concerns exist around choosing traits for children using genetic technology.
    • One argument against using these technologies is that it may lead parents to have unrealistic expectations and ultimate control over their children's traits.
    • However, there are virtues in accepting limitations while also recognizing the benefits of selecting certain general traits such as cognitive empathy, conscientiousness, and intelligence.

    Insights on Genetic Selection and Its Implications

    1:53:21 - 1:55:20

    • There may be a sea change of public opinion on the use of certain technologies as more cognitive dissonance is created.
    • Beliefs about heritability rooted in political ideology can afford to be wrong publicly but not privately.
    • Pressure to change these beliefs may come from elites who publicly change their stance, leading to a cascade effect.
    • The availability of IVG technology may change the moral impetus for people to have children, allowing more control over quality and quantity.
    • Demographic trends in the West and East Asia are concerning, with low fertility rates leading to population decline.
    • Massive cultural change is needed to address this crisis, moving away from pursuing pleasure and money towards living a meaningful life.
    • Liberalism may be evolutionarily unstable due to the fertility problem, potentially being replaced by nationalism or religiosity in the long run.
    • Religious people or nationalists who embrace high birth rates and technology may succeed in the future.
    • "Can Liberalism Last?" is a paper that explores the demographic demise and future of liberalism.
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