Ep. 145 - Baking a Human Behavior Cake with Jack Schafer

Mon May 10 2021

Social Engineer Podcast #145 - The Human Element Series

Chris Hanyaghi is the founder of the podcast and CEO of Social Engineer LLC, social-engineer.org, and Innocent Lives Foundation.
Maxie Reynolds is the technical team lead for social engineering and an attacker mindset expert with a diverse background.

Social Engineer LLC is a premier organization focusing on the human element.
They are launching new trainings and services like fishing as a service in 2021.

Innocent Lives Foundation helps law enforcement uncover, track, and trap trial predators.
They have completed over 327 cases in four years.

Dr. Jack Schafer is a retired FBI special agent and currently an associate professor at Western Illinois University.
He was assigned to the FBI's National Security Behavioral Analysis Program (BAP).
Jack has authored several books, including "The Like Switch" and "The Truth Detector".
He used to work for a Beltway Bandit company where he taught people how to elicit information using nonverbal language.
Jack translated those skills into teaching people how to build rapport and make friends.
Rapport building is important because it makes people want to do something for you because they like you, not because they have to.

Building rapport can lead to people wanting to help you because they like you.
It can result in escalated privileges and recommendations.
Techniques for building rapport can be learned through trial and error and intentional training.
Principles outlined in "The Like Switch" and "The Truth Detector" can be used for recruiting people for various purposes.

Con artists use techniques similar to normal friendship behaviors for evil purposes.
Learning these techniques can help recognize when they are being used.
"Name it and claim it" technique can be used to identify manipulative techniques.
People tend to believe others until given a reason not to (truth bias).
Law enforcement officers have a tendency towards deception bias, assuming someone is lying until proven otherwise.

Human behavior is a core basic behavior shared across cultures.
Culturally specific behaviors can be added on top of the core human behavior.
Core human behaviors can be taught, but it's impossible to teach all cultural things.
The FBI uses Brian's Loop to combat false statements and predetermine information release.

Brian's loop involves giving predetermined answers and redirecting the conversation back to the interrogator.
It allows for building rapport and avoiding direct compliments that can make people defensive.
Yes or no answers are unusual, and it's better to allow the person being questioned to flatter themselves.

Breaking the baseline of nonverbal cues can indicate deception, but it's not foolproof.
Verbal cues are more reliable than nonverbal cues as they directly represent what someone is thinking.

Consequences and rapport are important for motivation.
Treating someone with respect and dignity leads to willing compliance.
Getting a commitment from someone increases the likelihood of them following through on a task.

Psychological Principle of Consistency states that making a commitment leads to consistency in behavior.
Asking for a commitment from others increases the likelihood of receiving truthful responses.
Reciprocity can predispose someone to help you by doing them a favor and expecting them to do the same for you.

The lip purse is a nonverbal cue indicating negative opinion or resistance, which can be an opportunity to try and change someone's mind.