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    Sinica Podcast

    Transnational repression and China's "overseas police stations," with Jeremy Daum of Yale's Paul Tsai China Law Center

    Thu Jul 20 2023
    ChinaChinese police stationsMedia coverageInvestigationAI regulationsSummer food ideas

    Description

    The episode covers various topics related to China, including the China Project's publications, concerns about Chinese police stations operating overseas, media coverage of the issue, complexities surrounding the topic, investigations and actions taken, regulations on AI in China, and creative summer food ideas for kids.

    Insights

    Misconceptions about Chinese Police Stations

    Chinese police stations operating overseas are not secret or illegal, but rather provide administrative assistance to Chinese citizens abroad. The media coverage of these stations has been exaggerated and based on a single source report.

    Concerns and Complexities of Chinese Police Stations

    There are concerns about creating a public opinion narrative around Chinese police stations and tarring all Chinese or East Asian individuals as potential spies. Assimilation and China's messaging contribute to the complexity of the issue.

    Investigation and Actions Regarding Chinese Police Stations

    Not everyone in overseas police stations is involved in spying activities, and labeling them all as spies is problematic. Primary sources should be consulted before making claims about secret police stations. There is a difference between state action and non-state action when it comes to harassment and intimidation by Chinese citizens abroad.

    Regulations on AI in China

    The draft regulations on AI in China are less strict than expected, with a focus on public-facing generative AI services. Discrimination is now addressed in the regulations. Chinese developers may still face challenges compared to their Western counterparts.

    Chapters

    1. The China Project
    2. Misconceptions about Chinese Police Stations
    3. Media Coverage of Chinese Police Stations
    4. Concerns and Complexities of Chinese Police Stations
    5. Investigation and Actions Regarding Chinese Police Stations
    6. Regulations on AI in China
    7. Creative Summer Food Ideas for Kids
    Summary
    Transcript

    The China Project

    00:00 - 07:40

    • The China Project has published articles on the Chinese government's war on drugs, the People's Bank of China's hidden foreign exchange reserves, and an interview with the founder of Taiwan's MeToo movement.
    • China Access offers a subscription to support their journalism and podcast.
    • The annual next China conference in New York City will explore China's role in global issues such as security, energy, technology, human rights, and the shift to a post-carbon economy.
    • The Cineco Podcast covers various topics about China without bias.
    • Recent reports have raised concerns about Chinese police stations operating overseas and transnational repression.
    • Germany is taking countermeasures against transnational repression by Chinese overseas police stations.
    • Jeremy Dom, a senior research scholar in law, debunks misconceptions about Chinese police stations and transnational repression.

    Misconceptions about Chinese Police Stations

    07:22 - 14:46

    • There is a disconnect between the legal case proceeding and the mainstream media public opinion battle.
    • The DOJ's press release emphasized a bigger threat with a secret police station, but the actual charges were related to acting as agents for the government of China under the Foreign Agents Registration Act.
    • The so-called police stations were not secret or illegal, but rather advertised and labeled with signs.
    • They primarily helped Chinese citizens abroad with administrative paperwork, such as driver's licenses.
    • The work done at these stations was mostly administrative in nature and connected to offices back in China.
    • International attention to these police stations came from a report by safeguard defenders, which raised important issues but was sloppy and confused some media outlets.

    Media Coverage of Chinese Police Stations

    14:36 - 21:49

    • The media reported on a story based on a single source, the Safeguard Defenders report, without verifying its accuracy.
    • Safeguard Defenders took the worst possible interpretation of the documents they read.
    • Media companies also presented the findings in an exaggerated and inflammatory way.
    • There is some truth to the story of international intimidation and harassment by China, but the numbers are inflated and not directly tied to police stations.
    • Local actions by law enforcement are often misinterpreted as national policies.
    • Establishing physical offices for overseas harassment would be too controversial for China's central government.
    • Physical presences of police stations may have played a minimal role in transnational repression or harassment actions.
    • Closing all police stations down would not stop the harassment or intimidation.

    Concerns and Complexities of Chinese Police Stations

    21:29 - 28:54

    • Closing all the stations down wouldn't stop the harassment or intimidation.
    • The physical presence of Chinese police stations is not for the purpose of intimidation and surveillance.
    • The fear is that creating a threat out of these police stations could whip up a frenzy of hatred.
    • Using rule of law and due process to investigate these situations is preferable to creating a public opinion narrative.
    • There are concerns about tarring Chinese in America with a fifth columnist brush, but others argue it's to protect Chinese in America from the party state.
    • Assimilation and China's messaging contribute to the complexity of this issue.
    • It's important not to view everyone of Chinese or East Asian descent as a potential spy.
    • The social credit system myth has been debunked, but there are still concerns about media getting stories wrong.

    Investigation and Actions Regarding Chinese Police Stations

    28:35 - 35:47

    • There is a concern about people being overly confident in their wrong narratives, such as the social credit system and overseas police stations.
    • Not everyone in these overseas police stations is involved in spying activities, and labeling them all as spies is problematic.
    • Media and government should dig up primary sources before making claims about secret police stations.
    • The idea of supernatural powers attributed to Chinese police and United Front work groups can lead to conspiracy theories.
    • Several governments have investigated these overseas police stations, but the UK found no illegal activity.
    • Chinese law enforcement uses intimidation tactics to get alleged criminals to return, which may violate local laws.
    • There is a difference between state action and non-state action when it comes to harassment and intimidation by Chinese citizens abroad.
    • Domestic law should take action against cyber violence, stalking, and intimidation.

    Regulations on AI in China

    35:31 - 43:00

    • The draft regulations on AI in China are less strict than anticipated.
    • Service providers no longer need to verify the truthfulness of generated content or training data.
    • Discrimination, including health-based discrimination, is now addressed in the regulations.
    • The focus of the regulations is now on public-facing generative AI services that may cause problems.
    • Chinese developers may still face impediments in developing generative AI compared to their Western counterparts.
    • Research and development activities are exempt from many of the regulations, allowing companies to develop products behind the scenes.
    • The future of AI development is uncertain and rapid advancements are alarming.
    • "I Am a Virgo" is a TV show by Boots Riley with a unique message and superpower-themed characters.
    • The show takes place in Oakland and explores issues of race through a giant protagonist.
    • "I Am a Virgo" can be described as "Do the Right Thing" meets Marvel superhero movie.
    • Feeding kids during summer can be challenging, but there are creative options available.

    Creative Summer Food Ideas for Kids

    42:42 - 46:12

    • The speaker shares a recommendation for an easy and delicious way to feed their kids during the summer.
    • They suggest buying a large salmon filet or tuna steaks and slicing them into cubes.
    • The speaker then makes a sauce with mayonnaise, sriracha, mirin, sugar, sesame oil, and lemon juice to create spicy tuna or salmon.
    • Instead of serving it in bowls or rolls, they opt for DIY hand rolls using seaweed snacks from Costco.
    • The hand rolls can be customized with furikake seasoning, toasted sesame seeds, chopped green onions, and wasabi.
    • The speaker discusses how finicky eating can be with kids and mentions that their daughter used to be a good eater but now has objections to certain foods.
    • They also mention the gene that affects how people taste cilantro and briefly discuss giving data to companies like 23andMe.
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